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FENSA and conservatory queries

ellectrastar
ellectrastar Posts: 178 Forumite
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in House buying, renting & selling
Me again.


My solicitor asked me to ask my surveyor's opinion on a few issues. I've done this and done my own research online and am now looking for validation please!


Mainly regarding FENSA and a conservatory...


- No FENSA certs for windows installed in the 90s is fine as this was before scheme started.


- No FENSA certs for new windows/doors installed on an extension that was done as this was covered by building regs/sign off (plus FENSA don't cover new builds/extensions).



- No FENSA certs for conservatory as FENSA does not cover conservatories. (The surveyor seemed to think a conservatory would need certifying due to the glazing being used, but from what I can see it doesn't.)


- No planning permission needed for single storey rear conservatory providing it fits in with the conditions showing on the planning portal website.


- No building regs or planning permission needed for a radiator situated in the conservatory that's attached to the main system providing it has its own temperature controls.


If anyone could verify it would be appreciated. Sometimes I feel like I'm going mad there are so many things to check with this damn place!
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Comments

  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 16,412 Forumite
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    ellectrastar wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel like I'm going mad there are so many things to check with this damn place!


    What is your goal for checking all these things?

    For example, are they critical to your purchase? If you don't get 'validation', would you walk away?

    Your solicitor suggested that you ask your surveyor's opinion - was your surveyor concerned? If not, why do you feel you have to do anything more?
  • Davesnave
    Davesnave Posts: 34,741 Forumite
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    Are you sure you wouldn't just like a nice new build? :D

    All houses come with risks attached, or we create a few ourselves. I took the risk of building a conservatory a few square metres larger than allowed without PP and I shoved a radiator in it too. The building inspector hasn't given it a second glance.


    Fensa did come to inspect part of the work too. They said it wasn't up to standard and vowed to return when the door in question had been sorted-out by the installers. The door was fixed, but we didn't see Fensa again.
  • ellectrastar
    ellectrastar Posts: 178 Forumite
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    eddddy wrote: »
    What is your goal for checking all these things?

    For example, are they critical to your purchase? If you don't get 'validation', would you walk away?

    Your solicitor suggested that you ask your surveyor's opinion - was your surveyor concerned? If not, why do you feel you have to do anything more?


    No, there's obviously nothing there that would make me walk away. I'm just a person that likes to make sure I've understood everything properly and likes asking other people to check! Coincidentally the surveyor seemed to think a conservatory would need pp, so when I've read elsewhere that you don't it's the sort of thing I like to check.
  • ellectrastar
    ellectrastar Posts: 178 Forumite
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    Davesnave wrote: »
    Are you sure you wouldn't just like a nice new build? :D


    Sometimes I think it might have been easier! In fact this will be the newest place I've ever owned, so maybe I should've stuck with older!
  • BobQ
    BobQ Posts: 11,181 Forumite
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    edited 13 October 2018 at 4:07PM
    The lack of a certificate for old windows is not an issue since it will not meet modern standards anyway.

    Fensa is just a trade body that certifies installers as being competent. They authorise people they deem as competent to issue certificates in their name. Implicit in this is that the installation complies with Buiding Regulations for windows (ie their quality and installation standard)

    A competent builder who does not install enough windows to warrant paying a registration fee to FENSA or another trade body can still do a good job. The difference is that you may need to get the local authority to certify the window is installed correctly.

    Its not a question of FENSA not applying to conservatories. A FENSA competent person would not issue a certificate on a window installed in a conservatory if it did not meet BR. If the conservatory had BR approval a FENSA certificate could be issued on a window replacement.


    While you can still buy the house, as I understand it installing a radiator connected to a house heating system is not acceptable under building regulations unless the conservatory is constructed to the same standards as the main building (ie has exterior walls double glazed windows and doors and a compliant roof). A thermostat alone is not sufficient you need an independent heating source in the conservatory. Aside from anything else, not doing this is quite expensive.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
  • Davesnave
    Davesnave Posts: 34,741 Forumite
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    BobQ wrote: »

    Its not a question of FENSA not applying to conservatories. A FENSA competent person would not issue a certificate on a window installed in a conservatory if it did not meet BR. If the conservatory had BR approval a FENSA certificate could be issued on a window replacement.
    In that case, as only a very small % of conservatories comply with building regs, the lack of a Fensa cert for the windows in one is hardly an issue.


    As for giving a conservatory an independent heating source, it can be done, but I just open up the French doors and let our wood burner take the strain if we need to be in there on a cold day. It's very rare indeed that we use the radiator. Even when the Beast was blowing earlier this year, the wood burner coped, keeping it 25 degrees above the outdoor temperature.
  • Larac
    Larac Posts: 945 Forumite
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    edited 13 October 2018 at 7:27PM
    We have a conservatory on the house built by Anglia in 2002 -so as far as I am aware Fensa certification is only applicable for 10 years. Personally I would be looking at the state of the conservatory and what if any improvements/maintenance have been done. We have improved the conservatory by taking off the old roof and replacing with an insulated one, which makes it more usable all year around. Thats what I would be assessing rather then the lack of Fensa documentation. If a window gets 'blown' it is a relatively easy task to replace the unit - not sure what the hang up is with regards to lack of a Fensa cert.
  • BobQ
    BobQ Posts: 11,181 Forumite
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    Davesnave wrote: »
    In that case, as only a very small % of conservatories comply with building regs, the lack of a Fensa cert for the windows in one is hardly an issue.

    Agreed
    As for giving a conservatory an independent heating source, it can be done, but I just open up the French doors and let our wood burner take the strain if we need to be in there on a cold day. It's very rare indeed that we use the radiator. Even when the Beast was blowing earlier this year, the wood burner coped, keeping it 25 degrees above the outdoor temperature.

    Until you sell the house its not an issue and even then it depends on when it was built. A conservatory is defined as being outside of the external walls/doors/windows of the dwelling so BR do not generally apply. However Part L of the BR (covering fuel and power use) does apply unless the heating is isolated from the dwelling.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
  • Davesnave
    Davesnave Posts: 34,741 Forumite
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    BobQ wrote: »
    Until you sell the house its not an issue and even then it depends on when it was built.
    The heating system was installed before the conservatory, so it's a half hour job for it to revert to the original configuration and the radiator could disappear. It's superflous, but I didn't expect the wood burner to cope so well......and self-produced wood fuel is very cheap, compared with heating oil.
  • ellectrastar
    ellectrastar Posts: 178 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Thanks all.



    The surveyor has told me verbally that the conservatory appears to be well built and in a good state. It didn't have building regs or pp due to its size, therefore no one (building regs or FENSA certified installer) signed off on the installation. The FENSA website definitely states that conservatories are not covered if certain criteria apply. Interestingly one of these is that if the conservatory is heated it must have separate controls. It does not say that it has to be a separate source.



    The issue with certificates etc and trying to work out what they are needed for is simply because of the kerfuffle you have if you go to sell and you don't have what's needed. Although I'm hoping this move is for the very long term I am keeping in mind that if things don't turn out I want everything that I should have to hand. Whilst in the process of buying I can try and make as sure as possible that the current owner sorts these things out rather than leave it for me to figure out at a later date.
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