The Great 'Get Paid To Generate Energy' Hunt
Comments
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Jon_Tiffany wrote: »But with companies like ASG, you dont have to have the money, so this is a weak arguement. My understanding of the FIT is that it is intended to encourage companies like ASG as well as individual homeowners.
IMO companies like ASG have exploited a loophole in the regulations - not that I am criticising them.
FIT payments reduce as the size of the system increases; for systems < 4kWp it is 41.3p/kWh and reduces as the system size increases.
The Government in announcing the introduction of FITs stated:The Government has today announced the eagerly anticipated ‘Feed-in Tariff’ rates for small scale low carbon energy installations...
Note 'small scale'
Nobody could call the ASG operation, with hundreds/thousands of systems, small scale. Yet they get an untaxed, inflation linked income that was intended to go to private householders.
It would be far more efficient - and cost us consumers a lot less money in subsidies( which are profit to ASG) if thousands of panels were erected in a field or on the roof of the huge factories warehouses. Economy of scale, mimimal installation/maintenance costs etc. However large scale systems don't get the large FITs.
I am amazed that the Government allowed a commercial large scale system to masquerade as lots of small scale systems. However as we the energy customers pay the subsidy in increased charges - and not the government - they don't care.
In any case my statement that the FITs are for the better off still applies. You have to own, not rent, a house(not a flat). Then the house has to have an unshaded south facing roof of sufficient size and strength for the panels - hardly a level playing field.0 -
Having read the cardew v green as grass banter regarding solar hot water to the point of tedium I would like to add the following..
I moved into my house 2.5 years ago and from day one I have recorded my gas and electric meter readings on a weekly basis.
I inherited a gas ch and hw system. The gas boiler is in the ground floor kitchen and the hot water tank is in a first floor airing cupboard. Horizontally the boiler and hw tank are at least 20ft apart connected by uninsulated pipes. (I will get round to lagging them eventually). The hw tank does not have an electric immersion heater so heating is by the gas boiler alone. Gas is also used for cooking.
At this time of year the ch is off. The boiler is set to heat water to 55degC and there is a timer for the boiler to operate between 5.45 am and 6.15am. I don't know the capacity of the hw water tank, but it is approx 3ft high.
This arrangement meets the hw requirements of the three household members most of the time. Occasionally the timer will be over-ridden for an hour or so for an evening bath. Additionally hw is drawn off via the dishwasher most days.
It should also be expected that the temperature of the water entering the hw tank from the loft tank is higher at this time of year, so I would expect this arrangement to use more energy in the winter.
On to the figures....
For the last five weeks my daily gas cost has been 27p. Given I cook with gas the water heating cost will actually be less than this.
However, let us assume that for the six warmer months my heating costs 27p daily and in the six cooler months (water enters hw tank at much lower temp) the cost is 54p (ie twice the summer cost).
This will give me an annual hw heating bill of approx. £150.
If a solar water heating system could supply 100% of my hot water needs and we know that in summer it might and in winter it can't then the most I can possibly save per annum is £150.
Given the way my figure of £150 was calculated we will be inclined to believe that this is on the high side.
So it begs the question ...how much should a depreciating asset cost in order to make a £150 saving? Certainly not the figures of £3000 plus that I've seen on this thread!!
cardew 1 green as grass nil
cheers
Mick0 -
IMO companies like ASG have exploited a loophole in the regulations - not that I am criticising them.
I am amazed that the Government allowed a commercial large scale system to masquerade as lots of small scale systems. However as we the energy customers pay the subsidy in increased charges - and not the government - they don't care.
I hope their lawyers have done their homework properly, because you could certainly see government lawyers examining this pretty closely to see whether it's legally challengeable.
If they find that it is, you can be very sure that there'll be a clause in the contract between ASG and their customers that will protect ASG.0 -
I think this loophole will be patched up and/or the prices energy companies charge will increase to cover their costs. :eek:
There will be much more money for households with the RHI's coming in next april. Where the people that invest will reap the rewards.0 -
Having read the cardew v green as grass banter regarding solar hot water to the point of tedium;) Me TOO!
This will give me an annual hw heating bill of approx. £150.
If a solar water heating system could supply 100% of my hot water needs and we know that in summer it might and in winter it can't then the most I can possibly save per annum is £150.
Given the way my figure of £150 was calculated we will be inclined to believe that this is on the high side.
So it begs the question ...how much should a depreciating asset cost in order to make a £150 saving? Certainly not the figures of £3000 plus that I've seen on this thread!!
cardew 1 green as grass nil
cheers
Mick
Your figure of £150 annual spend on Hot Water for 3 people is in line with most estimates. - except those from solar salesmen!!!!
In fact in the Government proposals for RHI they give a figure of 3,700kWh pa for a 3 bed semi. (not that the size of house is a factor - but the number of people will be - presumably 3 or 4?)
To produce 3,700kWh with a gas boiler will take between 4,000kWh and, say, 5,500kWh depending on boiler efficiency. So £120 to £170 would be a ballpark figure.
The output from solar thermal panels in winter is minimal and few people will forecast that Solar thermal will produce more than 50% of Hot water throughout the year - so £75ish.
The Government tests of 8 systems indicate an output of 1,000kWh is a reasonable. expectation.
RHI proposals - if adopted - will of course make a big difference.0 -
I hope their lawyers have done their homework properly, because you could certainly see government lawyers examining this pretty closely to see whether it's legally challengeable.
If they find that it is, you can be very sure that there'll be a clause in the contract between ASG and their customers that will protect ASG.Solar PV System 1: 2.96kWp South+8 degrees. Roof 38 degrees. 'Normal' system
Solar PV System 2: 3.00kWp South-4 degrees. Roof 28 degrees. SolarEdge system
EV car, PodPoint charger
Lux LXP 3600 ACS + 6 x 2.4kWh Aoboet LFP 2400 battery storage. Installed Feb 2021
Location: Bedfordshire0 -
The one thing I would insist on is that the MCS installer gives you some 'cast iron' guarantees e.g. with ambient temperature @ -5C, the system will be capable of heating living rooms to 21C and bedrooms to 18C. There is evidence that the specifications on some new installations in UK simply do not cope with a normal winter.
Hi, I have some more questions, please
Does the installer of our heating system have to be on the MSC list in order for us to achieve repayments via the FIT system or the grant system?
Our plumber/heating engineer has fitted two GSHPs in the last two months and says we don't need to have an MSC installer. The two he has recently completed have received their payment from the grant.
I have info to complete for the engineer regarding the volume of the building and u values for the insulation. We are just looking at costs ATM. Thanksbusiness mortgage £0))''(+ Barclay's business kitchen loan £0=Total paid off was £96105 PPI claimed and received £13527
'I had a black dog, his name was depression".0 -
poohbear59 wrote: »Hi, I have some more questions, please
Does the installer of our heating system have to be on the MSC list in order for us to achieve repayments via the FIT system or the grant system?
Our plumber/heating engineer has fitted two GSHPs in the last two months and says we don't need to have an MSC installer. The two he has recently completed have received their payment from the grant.
I have info to complete for the engineer regarding the volume of the building and u values for the insulation. We are just looking at costs ATM. Thanks
You are getting a little confused between FIT and RHI(which is what we discussed earlier).
Feed in Tariffs(FIT) are for the generation of electricity, mainly by Solar PV or wind turbine as far as domestic users are concerned. This scheme came into force on 01 April 2010.
Renewable Heat Incentive(RHI) were proposals by the last Government for subsidies for Heat Pumps and Solar Thermal. The proposals were out for consultation with a view to introducing the Scheme in April 2011.
The change of Government has muddied the water with these proposals and it is not known if they are going ahead(probably they are) and/or what subsidies will be available . They have indicated a further announcement will be made this Autumn.
To get the RHI(as with FIT) the proposals stated that the installation would have to be by a MCS installer and I suspect that stipulation will remain0 -
Cardew I will check with our installer that he is a MSC installer. Thanks for putting me right I was confused about the two schemes. I will look at the proposals for RHI and keep an eye on anything new that comes along.business mortgage £0))''(+ Barclay's business kitchen loan £0=Total paid off was £96105 PPI claimed and received £13527
'I had a black dog, his name was depression".0 -
Solar power free
I have read somewhere you can have it fitted free and make a bit of money. It says you should go for duel fuel. Firstly I am not on the gas mains and it is never going to be available to me. I presently use LPG and a wood burner. My electricity cost is £22 a month which is a couple of quid above my real costs. I am as you can see relatively frugal I use economy 7 even though I gain little out of it IE I only use about 20% overnight but I believe in it as I think huge amounts of electric are wasted overnight. Obviously wood is a renewable resource and I use LPG for the remainder. Now is it worth me going the solar route I believe you should take it account the cost to the environment of making/building solar power and am always suspicious of anything which is considerably more expensive than the alternative. Can anyone give there opinion on this AND the internet site to go to to look at this........that is the one with the grants and I supposes any other but I particularly like the one where you just get free electric and pay nothing for the panels. I am pretty certain that my GARAGE roof is south facing ALSO my electric meter is in the garage. Anyway hoping to hear from you all with some useful info JB0
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