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    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 10th Nov 19, 6:15 PM
    • 8Posts
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    RACHAEL222
    Merging deferred local government pension to new one
    • #1
    • 10th Nov 19, 6:15 PM
    Merging deferred local government pension to new one 10th Nov 19 at 6:15 PM
    Hello all.
    I'm hoping to get some advice:
    My husband joined a local government pension in 1987 and had his pension with them until 2010. He then took a 2 year break and re-joined in 2012 but left original pension as deferred. He now has a new job on quite a bit more money and so his 2012+ pension is going with him but should he merge his 1987+ to this current one ( bearing in mind the retirement age for this is 65 and the new one is 67 year ( he is 55) any help would be much appreciated as it's a minefield and I'm worried we will make the wrong decision. Thank you
    Last edited by RACHAEL222; 10-11-2019 at 6:46 PM. Reason: spelling
Page 1
    • Fubbly
    • By Fubbly 10th Nov 19, 8:41 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Fubbly
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 19, 8:41 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Nov 19, 8:41 PM
    Hello all.
    I'm hoping to get some advice:
    My husband joined a local government pension in 1987 and had his pension with them until 2010. He then took a 2 year break and re-joined in 2012 but left original pension as deferred. He now has a new job on quite a bit more money and so his 2012+ pension is going with him but should he merge his 1987+ to this current one ( bearing in mind the retirement age for this is 65 and the new one is 67 year ( he is 55) any help would be much appreciated as it's a minefield and I'm worried we will make the wrong decision. Thank you
    Originally posted by RACHAEL222
    Its very likely to be beneficial to combine (if you are allowed - I think this is at the discretion of the employer -see link) as your husband's pension for service until 2014 is based upon his final salary.
    https://www.lgpsmember.org/more/aggregation.php

    Does your husband realise that he will meet the 85 year rule? - good news if he's thinking of retiring before 65.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 10th Nov 19, 8:51 PM
    • 4,750 Posts
    • 7,581 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 19, 8:51 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Nov 19, 8:51 PM
    “ Hello all. I'm hoping to get some advice:
    My husband joined a local government pension in 1987 and had his pension with them until 2010. He then took a 2 year break and re-joined in 2012 but left original pension as deferred. He now has a new job on quite a bit more money and so his 2012+ pension is going with him but should he merge his 1987+ to this current one ( bearing in mind the retirement age for this is 65 and the new one is 67 year ( he is 55) any help would be much appreciated as it's a minefield and I'm worried we will make the wrong decision. Thank you
    Originally posted by RACHAEL222
    Have you applied pensions increase to his 2010 leaving salary? Select the multiplication factor for his actual leaving date, and compare.

    28-Dec-09 to 27-Jan-10 1.2273
    28-Jan-10 to 27-Feb-10 1.2273
    28-Feb-10 to 27-Mar-10 1.2273
    28-Mar-10 to 26-Apr-10 1.2273
    27-Apr-10 to 26-May-10 1.2242
    27-May-10 to 26-Jun-10 1.2211
    27-Jun-10 to 26-Jul-10 1.2181
    27-Jul-10 to 26-Aug-10 1.2150
    27-Aug-10 to 26-Sep-10 1.2119
    27-Sep-10 to 26-Oct-10 1.2088
    27-Oct-10 to 26-Nov-10 1.2057
    27-Nov-10 to 26-Dec-10 1.2026
    27-Dec-10 to 26-Jan-11 1.1996

    Is there less than 5 years between his 2012+ service and his new job? If so, and if his new salary is still higher than his 2010 deferred record - and his employer allows him to aggregate all of his service (not a done deal in view of his previous election to keep his records seperate) then note that whatever he does his Rule of 85 protections will be limited to his pre 2008 service.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 11-11-2019 at 2:09 PM.
    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 10th Nov 19, 10:26 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    RACHAEL222
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 19, 10:26 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Nov 19, 10:26 PM
    Thank you - he re-joined in 2012 and his pension contributions has/will run concurrently with his new job without a gap. We can't remember the exact dates he wasn't in the pension scheme. I don't think he will qualify for the 85 year rule but still unsure if he should merge them- if they allow it?
    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 10th Nov 19, 10:46 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    RACHAEL222
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 19, 10:46 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Nov 19, 10:46 PM
    he re-joined nov 2012 ( break from ? /2010 - nov /2012) and has been in the pension from nov 2012 without a break - hope this helps. Sorry - not very pension savvy.
    • Fubbly
    • By Fubbly 10th Nov 19, 11:11 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Fubbly
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 19, 11:11 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Nov 19, 11:11 PM
    Thank you - he re-joined in 2012 and his pension contributions has/will run concurrently with his new job without a gap. We can't remember the exact dates he wasn't in the pension scheme. I don't think he will qualify for the 85 year rule but still unsure if he should merge them- if they allow it?
    Originally posted by RACHAEL222

    Why do you think he won't qualify for the 85 year rule? Hes 55 and joined the scheme 32 years ago. Even if he'd not returned to Local Gov he would meet the criteria. As Sivertabby suggests his salary when he left in 2010 and his salary now are the key figures - you say its quite a bit more - what's the %age difference?
    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 11th Nov 19, 7:49 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    RACHAEL222
    • #7
    • 11th Nov 19, 7:49 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Nov 19, 7:49 AM
    He has around 20 years before 2008 for 85 year rule and he is 55 so i didn't think he would meet that, His new wage is 20% higher than old one that he has just left and from 35% higher than his leaving wage at deferred pension. pension age at the deferred one is 65 though snd not 67 years. Thank you - i'm really unsure what he should do.
    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 11th Nov 19, 8:04 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    RACHAEL222
    • #8
    • 11th Nov 19, 8:04 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Nov 19, 8:04 AM
    I'm also not clear about which parts count towards the 85 year rule. ?
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 11th Nov 19, 8:32 AM
    • 2,581 Posts
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    hyubh
    • #9
    • 11th Nov 19, 8:32 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Nov 19, 8:32 AM
    He has around 20 years before 2008 for 85 year rule and he is 55 so i didn't think he would meet that
    Originally posted by RACHAEL222
    For deferreds, you include from leaving to 60+, as well as actual calendar service. (The precursor to the 85 year rule worked more like your assumption.)
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th Nov 19, 11:49 AM
    • 4,750 Posts
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    Silvertabby
    OP - as your husband was under 60 as at 31 March 2016 his Rule of 85 protections are limited to his pre 2008 service. As hyubh says, deferred membership counts towards R85 (still subject ot a minimum retirement age of 60) - but gaps in membership in between combined records doesn't. As your husband's break would only be 2 years, then that's not too much of a drama - but something to keep in mind for anyone else reading these posts.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 11-11-2019 at 11:53 AM.
    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 11th Nov 19, 1:12 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    RACHAEL222
    Thank you. One final question if I may. If you were in this position would you merge them? Will he keep his protection for 85 year rule if he merged them. Thank you
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th Nov 19, 2:07 PM
    • 4,750 Posts
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    Silvertabby
    Thank you. One final question if I may. If you were in this position would you merge them? Will he keep his protection for 85 year rule if he merged them. Thank you
    Originally posted by RACHAEL222
    We're not allowed to advise on here, just clarify.

    He will keep his R85 protections if his records are combined - but this will still only be in respect of his pre 2008 service. If he combines, he won't be able to access this part of pension from 60 - only when he actually retires.

    If he doesn't combine, then he would be able to take this pension from 60 (in theory from 55 but then would lose the benefits of his R85 protections) even if he is still working. There would be a little early payment reduction, but only in respect of his service from 2008 to 2010.

    The big question is the difference between his new salary and his 2010 salary plus cost of living increases. If the new salary is substantially higher, then the final salary link for his pre 2014 service will boost his overall pension.

    Of course, this may all be academic if his employer takes the stance that the decision to to keep his records separate in 2012 can't be rescinded. Has he asked if combining is an option?
    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 11th Nov 19, 3:03 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    RACHAEL222
    Thank you so much for all that information. He has asked but not got an answer yet. I believe that if he combines, he would be in a better position if he were to retire early on health grounds or be made redundant as they will include rejoined pension. Hopefully I shall know more from him in the next couple of days. Thank you so much
    • RACHAEL222
    • By RACHAEL222 11th Nov 19, 7:26 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    RACHAEL222
    Thank you so much to all of you for all of your help in providing the facts. He has been told he can rejoin So I think he shall do this.
    • Fubbly
    • By Fubbly 11th Nov 19, 9:02 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Fubbly
    Thank you so much to all of you for all of your help in providing the facts. He has been told he can rejoin So I think he shall do this.
    Originally posted by RACHAEL222

    It could well be the correct decision but before confirming, do make sure that you both understand the potential early additional benefits that would be available via the rule of 85 if not merged - particularly if your husband plans to work to 65.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th Nov 19, 9:10 PM
    • 4,750 Posts
    • 7,581 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    It could well be the correct decision but before confirming, do make sure that you both understand the potential early additional benefits that would be available via the rule of 85 if not merged - particularly if your husband plans to work to 65.
    Originally posted by Fubbly

    Rule of 85 will apply to pre 2008 service, whatever OP's husband does
    • Fubbly
    • By Fubbly 11th Nov 19, 9:17 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Fubbly
    Rule of 85 will apply to pre 2008 service, whatever OP's husband does
    Originally posted by Silvertabby

    Yes, but if merged and he doesnt leave before age 65 then aren't they effectively wasted ?
    Last edited by Fubbly; 11-11-2019 at 9:18 PM. Reason: typo
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th Nov 19, 9:28 PM
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    Silvertabby
    Yes, but if merged and he doesnt leave before age 65 then aren't they effectively wasted ?
    Originally posted by Fubbly
    Impossible to know. Yes, I see what you mean if he combines and then doesn't leave until 65/SPA - but then he wouldn't actually need R85, rather than wasting it.

    In the meantime, if his new salary is substantially more than his salary in 2010 (with cost of living increases) then combining will mean that all of his pre 2014 service will be re-calculated using the new salary.

    Plus, as OP says, if he leaves before 65 on redundancy or ill health terms then the combined records could well give a better result/

    If I could have chosen one piece of equipment to help me in my job as a LGPS administrator it would have been a crystal ball !
    • Fubbly
    • By Fubbly 11th Nov 19, 10:04 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Fubbly
    Impossible to know. Yes, I see what you mean if he combines and then doesn't leave until 65/SPA - but then he wouldn't actually need R85, rather than wasting it.
    Perhaps waste is the wrong word - but if the OP 's husband worked between the ages of 60 and 65 without combining they could expect 5 years worth of pre 2008 pension they would miss out on if combining - not insignifant with 21 years service. I know this has to be compared and offset against the many benefits of combining but just wanted the OP to ensure her husband understood the full picture before signing.

    In the meantime, if his new salary is substantially more than his salary in 2010 (with cost of living increases) then combining will mean that all of his pre 2014 service will be re-calculated using the new salary.
    Yes, and of course he may get further promotions in the years before leaving
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