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    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 5th Jul 19, 10:10 AM
    • 35,509 Posts
    • 41,618 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:10 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:10 AM
    M&s is HSBC , same card reader and m&s app

    OTP to mobile , initially also to email but only temporary basis later text only or ring bank

    https://bank.marksandspencer.com/security/how-we-protect-you/otp-faqs/
    Last edited by Browntoa; 05-07-2019 at 10:14 AM.
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Jul 19, 10:13 AM
    • 11,059 Posts
    • 13,693 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:13 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:13 AM
    M&s is HSBC , same card reader and m&s app

    OTP to mobile
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    Thanks, can you find any links to this info?
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 5th Jul 19, 10:15 AM
    • 35,509 Posts
    • 41,618 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:15 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:15 AM
    Updated my post
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 5th Jul 19, 10:19 AM
    • 35,509 Posts
    • 41,618 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:19 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:19 AM
    NatWest OTP

    https://supportcentre.natwest.com/Nonsearch/913268482/What-is-a-One-Time-Passcode.htm

    Card reader

    OTP via text , email and voicemail
    Last edited by Browntoa; 05-07-2019 at 10:21 AM.
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • SuiDreams
    • By SuiDreams 5th Jul 19, 10:20 AM
    • 2,360 Posts
    • 10,475 Thanks
    SuiDreams
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:20 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:20 AM
    HSBC, M&S and FD its currently a secure key device NOT a card reader. Can also use digital secure key. Its optional for logging in at the moment and only required for adding payees etc currently. Must use this to log in from 5th September.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 5th Jul 19, 10:23 AM
    • 35,509 Posts
    • 41,618 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:23 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 19, 10:23 AM
    NatWest OTP

    https://supportcentre.natwest.com/Nonsearch/913268482/What-is-a-One-Time-Passcode.htm

    Card reader

    OTP via text , email and voicemail
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    RBS the same

    https://www.supportcentre-rbs.co.uk/Searchable/913268482/What-is-a-One-Time-Passcode.htm
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 5th Jul 19, 11:27 AM
    • 35,509 Posts
    • 41,618 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 19, 11:27 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 19, 11:27 AM
    Tesco Bank OTP via text

    https://www.tescobank.com/security/how-we-protect-you/
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Space Orbit
    • By Space Orbit 5th Jul 19, 11:44 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Space Orbit
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 19, 11:44 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 19, 11:44 AM
    Its good to see Santander have changed their previous comments that you may need to use the mobile app in future. Perhaps as a result of negative feedback??

    For those of us who don't want the app their site now says the following


    Do I need to have the mobile banking app to continue banking online?
    No, you’ll still have the option to use One Time Passcode (OTP).

    I don’t want to download the mobile banking app, will I need to move my account to another company?
    No, you will be able to use OTP as a way to confirm it’s you.
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 5th Jul 19, 12:08 PM
    • 2,362 Posts
    • 5,255 Thanks
    Zanderman
    Fairly sure I read somewhere that Coop (and Smile - who probably need to be added to the list, despite being, actually, Coop) were changing to OTP instead of the existing card reader. But they haven't yet. Can't find the info now though - will look for it.
    • lr1277
    • By lr1277 5th Jul 19, 12:37 PM
    • 594 Posts
    • 326 Thanks
    lr1277
    I think Metro bank are using a OTP to a mobile phone based on this webpage:
    https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/ways-to-bank/i-want-some-information-about/fraud-and-security/
    • Emily Joy
    • By Emily Joy 5th Jul 19, 1:09 PM
    • 414 Posts
    • 188 Thanks
    Emily Joy
    Does this apply to Credit Cards, too? I am keeping a few credit cards after switching the current accounts away.
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 5th Jul 19, 1:35 PM
    • 1,719 Posts
    • 1,261 Thanks
    18cc
    Does this also apply to eg Monzo, Starling or is it desktop banking they are targeting?
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Jul 19, 1:43 PM
    • 11,059 Posts
    • 13,693 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Does this apply to Credit Cards, too? I am keeping a few credit cards after switching the current accounts away.
    Originally posted by Emily Joy
    Good point - it does encompass these, so I looked up info for MBNA and added them to the list, happy to add others as and when we find the relevant details! Amex and Barclaycard info seems to be published in the context of their roles as payment networks rather issuers, but hopefully there'll be info applicable to cardholders out there somewhere....
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 5th Jul 19, 1:53 PM
    • 1,719 Posts
    • 1,261 Thanks
    18cc
    Hi esk could I suggest it is made a bit clearer if you are referring in tnis thread to changes to signing into internet banking (many banks currently use passwords, memorable info etc - this will change) or the second scenario of internet shopping eg using your debit (or indeed credit) card to buy something.

    For example, the Natwest link above seems to be for shopping, not internet banking sign in.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Jul 19, 1:54 PM
    • 11,059 Posts
    • 13,693 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Does this also apply to eg Monzo, Starling or is it desktop banking they are targeting?
    Originally posted by 18cc
    Two factor authentication involves:
    two or more elements categorised as knowledge (something only the user knows), possession (something only the user possesses) and inherence (something the user is)
    My understanding is that an app is considered to be the middle of these and therefore, if combined with passwords/PINs, etc, satisfies the requirement, hence the use of apps as a second factor for non-app banks.

    So, app-only banks, assuming they also require the use of something the user knows (or is, such as fingerprint/facial recognition), shouldn't need any additional securing.

    Happy to be corrected though, I'm not claiming to be an expert!
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Jul 19, 2:02 PM
    • 11,059 Posts
    • 13,693 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Hi esk could I suggest it is made a bit clearer if you are referring in tnis thread to changes to signing into internet banking (many banks currently use passwords, memorable info etc - this will change) or the second scenario of internet shopping eg using your debit (or indeed credit) card to buy something.

    For example, the Natwest link above seems to be for shopping, not internet banking sign in.
    Originally posted by 18cc
    A fair point - I think that most are aiming not to reinvent the wheel and to use the same or similar approaches to verification for both purchases and logging in to banking, but that's not universal, as the LBG brands offer trusted devices for online banking but this doesn't apply for purchasing.

    However, not all of the banks seem to be making any distinction in what they're publishing, so it's not always clear.

    I'll try to think of how to represent this in a reasonably clear way (anyone know how to use tables on here without pasting pictures in from external sources?)
    • etienneg
    • By etienneg 5th Jul 19, 2:23 PM
    • 190 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    etienneg
    Does this apply to Credit Cards, too? I am keeping a few credit cards after switching the current accounts away.
    Originally posted by Emily Joy
    Credit cards is the area that's concerning me more than debit cards. Joint bank accounts seem to cope properly with 2FA for both of the account holders (that is, OTP is sent to phone of whichever card is being used).

    However, it's a different story for credit cards The two I have as main cardholder where my wife is an additional cardholder (Nationwide and Tesco) only support OTP being sent to main cardholder, which is hopeless for the additional cardholder making purchases online. When I enquired, I got the impression nobody had thought of this problem, or maybe just ignored it!

    I'd be very pleased for additional or updated information from anyone on this.

    One other issue that's arisen for a family member who spends a lot of time abroad is that texts can take a long time (around 1 hour) to arrive, which isn't any use when the OTP expires after 10 minutes!
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Jul 19, 3:07 PM
    • 11,059 Posts
    • 13,693 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Credit cards is the area that's concerning me more than debit cards. Joint bank accounts seem to cope properly with 2FA for both of the account holders (that is, OTP is sent to phone of whichever card is being used).

    However, it's a different story for credit cards The two I have as main cardholder where my wife is an additional cardholder (Nationwide and Tesco) only support OTP being sent to main cardholder, which is hopeless for the additional cardholder making purchases online. When I enquired, I got the impression nobody had thought of this problem, or maybe just ignored it!

    I'd be very pleased for additional or updated information from anyone on this.
    Originally posted by etienneg
    Doesn't sound very clever! Hopefully they'll publicise their policies on this to help people decide - I didn't see anything explicitly mentioned in any of the pages linked above.

    Edit: I take it back, the M&S page states that they support separate mobile numbers per card, not just one per account.

    One other issue that's arisen for a family member who spends a lot of time abroad is that texts can take a long time (around 1 hour) to arrive, which isn't any use when the OTP expires after 10 minutes!
    Originally posted by etienneg
    That'll be the time difference from central Europe

    I think this is an inherent weakness in relying on mobile phone networks - the banks already have no control over the networks within the UK and sending messages abroad is another degree of separation. There have been numerous other threads about the obsolescence and poor security of SMS but it's effectively the lowest common denominator at the moment - it'll be interesting to see how much more timely app verification is from overseas, for those in a position to make a direct comparison once these measures are in place.
    Last edited by eskbanker; 05-07-2019 at 6:25 PM.
    • badger09
    • By badger09 5th Jul 19, 3:41 PM
    • 7,332 Posts
    • 6,903 Thanks
    badger09
    Fairly sure I read somewhere that Coop (and Smile - who probably need to be added to the list, despite being, actually, Coop) were changing to OTP instead of the existing card reader. But they haven't yet. Can't find the info now though - will look for it.
    Originally posted by Zanderman
    Latest info I have is email from Co-op 4/6/19:


    "You can now update your telephone number and email address in the mobile banking, using your fingerprint, passnumber or Face ID (only available on iOS devices) no need to use your card reader.

    We have brought in this feature because in the near future, the way you bank and shop online is changing. To help protect you against fraud, we are strengthening how we use two-factor authentication and changing the way you verify yourself. We will be sending you more info about this soon, but to get prepared, make sure your mobile telephone number and email address are up to date.

    Find out more about how you shop and bank online is changing:
    https://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/security/two-factor-authentication"
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