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My friend's tenancy problem

2

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  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229
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    greyville wrote: »
    Let me simplify:

    August 7 - day tenancy was due to end
    July 18 - day she moved out.
    August 7 - day rent was paid up to
    There are 20 days between July 18 and August 7. My friend feels she's due a rent refund for those days.
    Shes not.


    The landlady said, pay the rent up until August 7th; your friend did.


    (now hypothetically you can say that a deed of surrender needs to be written and witnessed. - but is your friend going to go to court to get that money back?)
  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229
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    greyville wrote: »
    Another quote from the letter:

    "I'm happy to let the lettings agency know the apartment is available. If it's then rented, I'm happy to save you additional costs."

    The new tenancy began the day after my friend left...at the point she was still paying rent for.



    ... Can you just post the whole thing and save everyone a load of wasted time....
  • saajan_12
    saajan_12 Posts: 3,595
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    greyville wrote: »
    The landlady said in writing it would be fine to end the tenancy on July 18 - so long as my friend paid rent up to August 7.

    Her letter states: "Any overpayment of rent will be refunded when the tenancy ends. I can do a bank transfer the same day."

    So the tenancy ends on 18th July by mutual early surrender. Say monthly rent is £x. From what you have quoted,
    - LL's obligations to provide a home, repairs etc cease on 18th July
    - Tenant's obligations including to look after property condition, clean, pay utility bills, council tax etc cease on 18th July.
    - Tenant agrees to pay rent equal to what would be due upto 7 Aug, ie pay £x on 7 Jul.
    - If Tenant overpays rent beyond what was agreed (e.g. £x+y) then the overpayment (£y) would be refunded immediately on 18 Jul.

    However I agree it seems odd to mention what happens to an overpayment if there was no overpayment expected.. why not also say "If you give me 3 pigs I'll give them back". So, please quote the full discussion in case the context gives another interpretation.
    sparkey1 wrote: »
    Did she rent the house to anyone else between, 18 Jul and 7th Aug. If she did, then you qualify for a refund without doubt for the days rented.

    No, if the tenancy was ended on 18th July then what happens after that is not any of friend's business. The payment on 7th July could be a fixed amount agreed as part of an early surrender, not rent in return for occupation for 7Jul-7Aug. The tenant benefits by not having to be liable for the property condition, utility bills, council tax, etc beyond 18th July.
  • need_an_answer
    need_an_answer Posts: 2,812
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    edited 7 August 2018 at 2:44PM
    If a new tenant had been living in the property after your friend left and the tenancy agreement expired then my understanding is that the LL cannot collect two rental amounts on the property so if this were the case I believe a refund may have been due.

    If the property had been vacated and there was no new tenant there,then no rent rebate will be due to your friend.

    How did your friend know a new tenancy agreement was created the day after they left?
    That's not normally information given to the departing tenant,however if such an agreement took place I would be tempted to write formally to request the refund of the days that doubled up from the 19th July.

    However this is only the case if an actual agreement was signed rather than maybe a verbal commitment to take the property on the part of the new tenant.

    As a LL I was once in the position whereby I refunded a departing tenant in similar circumstances however not all LL's are equal.
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  • saajan_12
    saajan_12 Posts: 3,595
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    edited 7 August 2018 at 2:46PM
    greyville wrote: »
    'if you leave three weeks early, pay me four weeks and I'll refund you three weeks'.
    Comms69 wrote: »
    Does any of that actually make sense when you read it back... :)
    greyville wrote: »
    Let me simplify:

    August 7 - day tenancy was due to end
    July 18 - day she moved out.
    August 7 - day rent was paid up to
    There are 20 days between July 18 and August 7. My friend feels she's due a rent refund for those days.


    I think Comms69 got that, the point is it doesn't make sense from the outset to say pay me 4weeks and I'll refund 3 weeks.. If the plan was for LL only to keep 1 week's rent, why not just agree to pay 1 week.. Logical reason: the intention was to pay 4 weeks, and refund the 1week in case tenant paid 5 weeks for example. Since another tenant moved in immediately, it wasn't the case that LL expected friend not to move out.

    Agree with the others, stop drip feeding info and quote the whole letter.
  • greyville
    greyville Posts: 76
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    How did your friend know a new tenancy agreement was created the day after they left?

    The neighbour told her they moved in the next day.
  • need_an_answer
    need_an_answer Posts: 2,812
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    greyville wrote: »
    The neighbour told her they moved in the next day.

    Although the crucial thing is were they new tenants or maybe friends staying over whilst the property was empty.

    You cant make an assumption without knowing a new tenancy agreement was signed.


    What the neighbour says is just what they see,not always the full picture,
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  • saajan_12 wrote: »
    I think Comms69 got that, the point is it doesn't make sense from the outset to say pay me 4weeks and I'll refund 3 weeks.. If the plan was for LL only to keep 1 week's rent, why not just agree to pay 1 week.. Logical reason: the intention was to pay 4 weeks, and refund the 1week in case tenant paid 5 weeks for example. Since another tenant moved in immediately, it wasn't the case that LL expected friend not to move out.

    Agree with the others, stop drip feeding info and quote the whole letter.

    I suppose it does if you look at it this way: Landlord is happy to end tenancy on 18th July but wants to be careful in case the Tenant tries it on and stays til 7th Aug anyway, so asks for full rent and once Landlord is sure Tenant has left then refunds the rent for 18th-7th.

    Obviously this creates a murky situation so needed to be clarified in a decently worded agreement signed by both, as this hasn't been done I suspect the poster's friend will need to take this on the chin.
  • saajan_12
    saajan_12 Posts: 3,595
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    saajan_12 wrote: »
    Since another tenant moved in immediately, it wasn't the case that LL expected friend not to move out.
    I suppose it does if you look at it this way: Landlord is happy to end tenancy on 18th July but wants to be careful in case the Tenant tries it on and stays til 7th Aug anyway, so asks for full rent and once Landlord is sure Tenant has left then refunds the rent for 18th-7th.

    I thought of this and addressed it in my post.. the fact that a new tenant moved in immediately suggests the LL wasn't worried about friend not moving out, as the LL likely held viewings, references, collected deposit, registered deposit, cleaning, inventory all.. chances are much of this started before the 19th July. If LL was worried friend wouldn't move out, they wouldn't commit to another tenancy as they'd have much bigger issues of covering the incoming tenant's costs for breach of contract than a few days rent.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977
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    so much drip-feeding of information and contradictory statements I can't be bothered. Just thought I'd say so!


    And has the landlady's letter actually be quoted here in full?
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