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  • FIRST POST
    • Primrose
    • By Primrose 28th May 19, 3:49 PM
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    Primrose
    The War against plastic waste
    • #1
    • 28th May 19, 3:49 PM
    The War against plastic waste 28th May 19 at 3:49 PM
    I don't know if we have a specific thread on here for sharing tips against reducing our plastic use - perhaps we could share them, but here's a current "bee in my bonnet".




    We recently received our National Trust magazine which came packaged in an oute wrapper which said:
    "I am 100% compostable and contain Potato Starch. The National Trust has moved away from polythene wrapping to a more environmentally friendly potato starch film which is compostable.Here are several ways you can dispose of your wrapper:



    1 Add to a well maintined home/garden compost heap
    2. Place it with your garden waste for industrial composting

    3 Use to line your food waste caddy"


    I realised we receive quite a few publications with these plastic wrappers, including magazines issued by weekend paper supplements so my self assigned task is to write to them all asking why, if the National Trust can adopt such a policy, the rest of them can't do the same ?


    Anybody care to join me and do the same?


    And please do share your tips for reducing plastic. The waste is reaching epidemic proportions, isn't it?



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    Last edited by MSE Tine; 18-06-2019 at 8:51 AM.
Page 2
    • K80 Black
    • By K80 Black 2nd Jun 19, 9:25 PM
    • 415 Posts
    • 855 Thanks
    K80 Black
    I could mention that most plastic in the ocean comes from fishing, not from consumer waste so stopping eating fish and supporting that industry would be best - but then you'd just tell me I was being unhelpful.

    I'm sorry you don't like the facts. Doesn't change them.
    • greenbee
    • By greenbee 2nd Jun 19, 9:40 PM
    • 13,370 Posts
    • 226,902 Thanks
    greenbee
    If you can provide a link to the source data i’d be interested in reading the evidence so I could make an informed decision, as according to WWF 80% of ocean plastic comes from land.

    https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/how-does-plastic-end-ocean
    Last edited by greenbee; 02-06-2019 at 9:42 PM.
    • K80 Black
    • By K80 Black 2nd Jun 19, 9:57 PM
    • 415 Posts
    • 855 Thanks
    K80 Black
    My mistake. The article(s) I was thinking of referred only to the great Pacific garbage patch and not the entire ocean. I actually saw it written in the sea life centre most recently, but recalled multiple articles last year about it. Here's one from the national geographic.

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-garbage-patch-plastics-environment/

    Its still a huge proportion of plastic waste.
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 3rd Jun 19, 3:14 AM
    • 24,874 Posts
    • 29,041 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    If you're worried about the environment, it doesn't really matter HOW you get your milk - the fact that you're drinking it at all is the issue. Cows produce a lot of polluting gases like methane. If you switched to a non dairy alternative you'd be making a much bigger impact than anything mentioned thus far.
    Originally posted by K80 Black
    I am not clear how processed alternatives are any better for the environment. What happens to the rest of the plant matter after the 'milk' is extracted?
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
    • K80 Black
    • By K80 Black 3rd Jun 19, 6:06 AM
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    K80 Black
    I am not clear how processed alternatives are any better for the environment. What happens to the rest of the plant matter after the 'milk' is extracted?
    Originally posted by Fire Fox
    Here's the statistics on the environmental impact of various milks from the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

    As you can see from the graph, even the 'worst' nom dairy milk uses less water and land, and they all have significantly less emitions.

    Any leftovers from the production of non dairy milk will decompose very easily.

    What happens to all the cows past their milking age?
    • THIRZAH
    • By THIRZAH 3rd Jun 19, 6:27 AM
    • 1,433 Posts
    • 7,529 Thanks
    THIRZAH
    I was buying a sandwich to eat on the train and wanted some crisps too. It was cheaper to buy the "Meal Deal " which included a drink -in a plastic bottle of course!. I didn't really need the drink as I had filled my water bottle in the hotel.Perhaps retailers could be persuaded to change their "Meal Deals" to include something like an apple instead of a drink.


    In case anyone wonders why I didn't take a sandwich from home , I had done so on my way down. The sandwich from the supermarket was for my return journey two days later.
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 3rd Jun 19, 7:07 AM
    • 3,532 Posts
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    tori.k
    Here's the statistics on the environmental impact of various milks from the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

    As you can see from the graph, even the 'worst' nom dairy milk uses less water and land, and they all have significantly less emitions.

    Any leftovers from the production of non dairy milk will decompose very easily.

    What happens to all the cows past their milking age?
    Originally posted by K80 Black
    Didn't go unnoticed that they didn't publish the Vegan milks by location as they did the dairy.
    Moving tonnage of things across the world like almonds is carbon heavy and hardly sustainable.

    We over complicate things there is no best way just best practice, sustainable livestock production is possible if done in permaculture system not the current monoculture farming that detrimental regardless if that's livestock or plant based. its overall consumption that has to be addressed.

    Old milk cows are sent to slaughter, low grade meat for ready made burgers and the like & pet food hides to the leather industry blood and bones to a processing plant for domestic and monoculture farming for fertilizer their is actually little waste, waste is not cost effective.
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 3rd Jun 19, 7:19 AM
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    tori.k
    Back on topic
    I think all we can do is be honest with ourselves if we actually need an item regardless if its plastic or not.
    I foolishly gave myself a pat on the back as years ago I replaced my washing up bowl with a stainless steel when our plastic one was melted by a hot pan this bowl was/is going to last me my lifetime, im such a twit the sensible person in me now asks why did I replace it all I have a plug for the sink and various buckets for other jobs, the carbon and resources used to make my steel washing up bowl negates any positive environmental or financial gain.
    • K80 Black
    • By K80 Black 3rd Jun 19, 7:19 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 855 Thanks
    K80 Black
    Didn't go unnoticed that they didn't publish the Vegan milks by location as they did the dairy.
    Moving tonnage of things across the world like almonds is carbon heavy and hardly sustainable.

    We over complicate things there is no best way just best practice, sustainable livestock production is possible if done in permaculture system not the current monoculture farming that detrimental regardless if that's livestock or plant based. its overall consumption that has to be addressed.

    Old milk cows are sent to slaughter, low grade meat for ready made burgers and the like & pet food hides to the leather industry blood and bones to a processing plant for domestic and monoculture farming for fertilizer their is actually little waste, waste is not cost effective.
    Originally posted by tori.k
    The dairy milks and non dairy milks were shown as an average worldwide. They don't need to break down every non dairy milk as they did for dairy - the main graph shows they are all less harmful than dairy, even when transportation is included, as it was in the first graph.

    Thanks for pointing out that 5 year old cows (they live to 25 naturally) are killed. After a short life of constant pregnancy and having their calfs taken away (I've met grown adults who think cows are somehow different from humans and don't need pregnancy to lactate), their final thank you for proving your milk is an early death. I didn't want to bring animal cruelty into this, but there you go.
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 3rd Jun 19, 7:30 AM
    • 24,874 Posts
    • 29,041 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    Here's the statistics on the environmental impact of various milks from the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

    As you can see from the graph, even the 'worst' nom dairy milk uses less water and land, and they all have significantly less emitions.

    Any leftovers from the production of non dairy milk will decompose very easily.
    Originally posted by K80 Black
    Thank you, interesting. Surprising to see the stark difference between cheese and beef.

    Leftovers 'decomposing' implies food waste.

    What happens to all the cows past their milking age?
    Originally posted by K80 Black
    I do not personally drink milk, but do consume a variety of traditional dairy products (European origin). The ewes/ goats/ cows eventually enter the food chain. AFAIK the meat of ewes and goats is more likely to eventually be consumed by humans than intensively farmed dairy cows.
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 3rd Jun 19, 7:42 AM
    • 3,532 Posts
    • 9,451 Thanks
    tori.k
    The dairy milks and non dairy milks were shown as an average worldwide. They don't need to break down every non dairy milk as they did for dairy - the main graph shows they are all less harmful than dairy, even when transportation is included, as it was in the first graph.

    Thanks for pointing out that 5 year old cows (they live to 25 naturally) are killed. After a short life of constant pregnancy and having their calfs taken away (I've met grown adults who think cows are somehow different from humans and don't need pregnancy to lactate), their final thank you for proving your milk is an early death. I didn't want to bring animal cruelty into this, but there you go.
    Originally posted by K80 Black
    I don't actually drink milk or eat eggs. husband & I are vegetarian our children eat meat, as is our individual choice.
    If im going to choose a soap box ( and I often bang that drum) its going to be for food miles in the form of local products regardless of meat or plant based. as I see that as a positive sustainable option.
    • K80 Black
    • By K80 Black 3rd Jun 19, 7:59 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 855 Thanks
    K80 Black
    I don't actually drink milk or eat eggs. husband & I are vegetarian our children eat meat, as is our individual choice.
    If im going to choose a soap box ( and I often bang that drum) its going to be for food miles in the form of local products regardless of meat or plant based. as I see that as a positive sustainable option.
    Originally posted by tori.k
    I actually do drink milk (well, eat cheese) and eat eggs. Just occasionally. This is sustainable in my eyes - eating a variety of foods from various sources, not drinking pints of milk every day. If you ONLY care about plastic, or food miles, or strict veganism without looking at the bigger picture then you end doing more harm than good - as you showed by buying an 'eco friendly' washing up bowl you don't even need.
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 4th Jun 19, 6:56 AM
    • 3,532 Posts
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    tori.k
    Absolutely
    And I unintentionally lied I eat cake probably more often then I should and often that has milk and/or eggs in them, but you got my gist.

    A UK plastic free product turned up at work in the form of shampoo bars by Bath bubble and beyond, most of their products are plastic wrapped but the shampoo bars are just in a cardboard box, half the price of the lush ones.
    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 4th Jun 19, 9:37 AM
    • 9,844 Posts
    • 33,513 Thanks
    DigForVictory
    I googled various virtuous lists & this is a summary of the first 4

    Carry a reusable bottle
    Say no to plastic straws
    Take a reusable coffee cup
    Avoid excessive food packaging
    Use refill stations for detergents
    Say no to disposable cutlery (carry your own - but be prepared for eco conversations with security)
    Get your milk delivered (I know, not for everyone, but Greenpeace & WWF both advocate it)
    Avoid microbeads
    Carry a shopping bag
    Give up gum.
    Buy boxes instead of bottles.
    Purchase food, like cereal, pasta, and rice from bulk bins and fill a reusable bag or container. (Waitrose have started in Oxford - but other suppliers are available)
    Use loose leaf tea with a tea strainer (teabags are plasticised)
    If you must use glitter, use eco-friendly, biodegradable glitter
    Ditch the cling wrap (you can make your own waxed cloth with cotton cloth & wax)
    Become a wine bottle sommelier - choose wine bottles with natural cork stoppers
    Carry your own containers for for take-out food and leftovers.
    Treat yourself to an ice cream cone (rather than buy the plastic containers, plus inbuilt portion control [soem greens can be body fascists])
    Bring your own container for meat and prepared foods.
    Buy fresh bread that comes in either paper bags or no bags.
    Buy large wheels of unwrapped cheese. (Eco may also be MS but upfront affordability may be an ulp issue)
    Clean with vinegar and water.
    Baking soda is a fantastic scouring powder.
    Use powdered dishwasher detergent in a cardboard box.
    Hand wash dishes without plastic.
    Use natural cleaning cloths and scrubbers instead of plastic scrubbers and synthetic sponges.
    Wash clothes with homemade laundry soap and stain removers.
    Use natural rubber gloves.
    Check labels of personal care products! No polyethylene please
    Switch to bar soap instead of liquid soap.
    Give up shampoo in plastic bottles.
    Choose lotions and lip balms in plastic-free containers.
    Switch from a plastic razor to a second-hand safety razor.
    Reconsider how you clean your teeth.
    Choose toilet paper thatís not wrapped in plastic.
    Use plastic-free feminine hygiene products.
    Look into plastic-free sunscreen options.
    Explore plastic-free hair accessories and tools.
    Keep your own reusable foodware at the office.
    Carry lunches in reusable stainless containers or cloth bags.
    Learn to preserve foods without plastic.
    Avoid non-stick cookware.
    Choose stainless steel ice cube trays and Popsicle molds.
    Acquire necessary plastic items used instead of new.
    Repair things when they break.
    Avoid disposable plastic pens.
    Choose natural cat litter.
    Choose pet toys and furniture made from natural materials instead of plastic.

    At which point I rather ran out of eco puff, but by doing a few things, it's better than doing None. And you can always migrate gradually.

    Says she already using a fabric bag to carry food & drink containers & carrying a spork. That's not virtue signalling nor desperately caring about the planet, it's solid MSE taking your lunch to work! Which happily turned out to be limiting plastic waste as well.
    • C J
    • By C J 4th Jun 19, 11:41 AM
    • 1,262 Posts
    • 7,593 Thanks
    C J
    I was only thinking the other day how great it would be if they brought back those stores which we had (maybe in the 80s?) where you could fill your own containers from big tubs of things like flour, muesli etc. I am certain they had a shop like this on Coronation Street for a while but I can't find anything about it, and now all my friends think I have imagined it.

    Anyhow - this turned up on today's local news. One of the Waitrose stores in Oxford is trialling "fill your own containers" for pasta, wine, beer and detergent :

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/04/waitrose-takes-battle-plastic-next-level-bring-boxes-9795533/
    An ever-shifting labyrinth of chiaroscuro
    • jackieblack
    • By jackieblack 4th Jun 19, 11:52 AM
    • 8,855 Posts
    • 14,528 Thanks
    jackieblack
    I was only thinking the other day how great it would be if they brought back those stores which we had (maybe in the 80s?) where you could fill your own containers from big tubs of things like flour, muesli etc.
    Originally posted by C J
    The ones in our area were called 'Weigh and Save' - my colleagues and I often say how good it would be if they brought them back
    2.22kWp Solar PV system installed Oct 2010, Fronius IG20 Inverter,
    south facing (-5 deg), 30 degree pitch, no shading

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    Jan £105.26, Feb £103.31,Mar £135.77, Apr £104.51, May £100, June £100,
    July £120.64, Aug £104.36


    Everything will be alright in the end so, if itís not yet alright, it means itís not yet the end
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 4th Jun 19, 12:02 PM
    • 3,532 Posts
    • 9,451 Thanks
    tori.k
    We lucky enough to still have ours its call the Weigh inn in Penzance
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 4th Jun 19, 1:47 PM
    • 2,592 Posts
    • 3,829 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    Become a wine bottle sommelier - choose wine bottles with natural cork stoppers
    Originally posted by DigForVictory

    Ah.. The best alternative is to live in France or Italy (etc.) and take your own container to the local co-operative winery and fill from those stainless steel tanks.


    Failing that the Stelvin stopper is a reasonable alternative as it's made from aluminium and hence recyclable. The problem with the tremendous worldwide expansion of bottled wine over the last decades is the inadequate resources of decent cork, hence cheaper corks giving higher levels of taint and corked bottles. A tragic waste, as anybody will know who has opened a bottle in anticipation and...


    My pet annoyance are those toilet rolls (and kitchen rolls) covered in plastic. Paper is easily recycled or I may compost or use as firelighters in winter but that plastic film is not locally (or anywhere in the UK?).



    Disposable cutlery can be found made from wood, so there are solutions which need adopting more widely.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 4th Jun 19, 2:17 PM
    • 2,592 Posts
    • 3,829 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    PS Waitrose, in that trial have 4 wines and 4 beers on tap!


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/04/waitrose-launches-packaging-free-trial
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 4th Jun 19, 2:25 PM
    • 66,759 Posts
    • 391,742 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    I donít understand why plastic milk bottles canít be collected and reused.
    Originally posted by bouicca21
    they're most likely created on the fly, about 30 seconds before the milk's put into them. In the factory they'll have a machine that makes them instantly, that then passes them to the milk dispensing nozzle. There isn't a factory making them, then putting them on a pallet and a factory buying 1000 pallets of empty bottles.
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