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  • FIRST POST
    • TheLittleThings
    • By TheLittleThings 17th Jul 19, 11:27 AM
    • 8Posts
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    TheLittleThings
    TV license needed for live TV, but why?
    • #1
    • 17th Jul 19, 11:27 AM
    TV license needed for live TV, but why? 17th Jul 19 at 11:27 AM
    Hi All,

    So I know all the rules about having a TV license - you need one to watch or record any live TV - but my question is 'why'? I thought that other channels don't receive any money from the TV license (only BBC), and they all get funding from adverts. So to me it would make sense for them to be separate from the license.

    Is it a case that to have access to the other channels via live TV you'd have to have access to the BBC so couldn't prove that you weren't watching it?

    Thanks!
Page 2
    • cajef
    • By cajef 18th Jul 19, 12:50 PM
    • 5,019 Posts
    • 4,077 Thanks
    cajef
    boycott the tv license and either, just manage without BBC programs
    Originally posted by pphillips
    What good would that do, you still need a licence to watch any other channels as they are being broadcast live and by the way it is a licence not a license.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
    • pphillips
    • By pphillips 18th Jul 19, 1:52 PM
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    pphillips
    What good would that do, you still need a licence to watch any other channels as they are being broadcast live and by the way it is a licence not a license.
    Originally posted by cajef
    If you read earlier in that post I mention how the tv licence has been left behind by catch up services, which also provide licence free access to some BBC programs.
    • cajef
    • By cajef 18th Jul 19, 6:32 PM
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    cajef
    If you read earlier in that post I mention how the tv licence has been left behind by catch up services, which also provide licence free access to some BBC programs.
    Originally posted by pphillips
    Not all people use catch up services especially the elderly.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 18th Jul 19, 9:54 PM
    • 5,762 Posts
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    onomatopoeia99
    It just seems bizarre that the BBC is opposed to funding TV through advertising, except for the 7 commercial TV channels it already owns.
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    Which aren't covered by the "public service" remit, as you know.


    The BBC is not prohibited from making money to subsidise the licence fee by licensing the programs it has produced or other commercial ventures, but I as a TV consumer don't want to see it reduced to the lowest common demoninator / "Jeremy Kyle" level that commercial television operates at by being forced down an advertising or subscription based revenue system.


    I found the other poster declaring the licence fee was antiquated hilarious, especially given that most European countries have a licence fee, often more expensive than ours or with the public service broadcaster also carrying advertising (something rarely mentioned by people opposed to it who try to paint the UK as a relic unique in the world in having one) and some, like the Danish, are far more draconian about who has to pay it than UK legislation is.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek. Home is where my books are.

    5.2kWp system, SE facing, >1% shading, installed March 2019.
    • pphillips
    • By pphillips 18th Jul 19, 11:36 PM
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    pphillips
    I found the other poster declaring the licence fee was antiquated hilarious, especially given that most European countries have a licence fee, often more expensive than ours or with the public service broadcaster also carrying advertising (something rarely mentioned by people opposed to it who try to paint the UK as a relic unique in the world in having one) and some, like the Danish, are far more draconian about who has to pay it than UK legislation is.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Not sure what you find "hilarious" as I wasn't talking about nor do I pretend to know about the tv licence arrangements in other European countries, either currently or historically.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 19th Jul 19, 12:11 AM
    • 5,270 Posts
    • 8,333 Thanks
    Nick_C
    If people can afford the money for a TV set, then they can afford to pay to watch it. It does amaze me that someone will pay 500-1000 for a TV and balk at paying 150 for a licence.
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    My TV is more than 10 years old and cost about 300 at the time. Owning a TV does not currently cost me anything.

    Watching live TV is more than twice the cost of Netflix which is free of advertising.

    I'm going license free at the end of the month. Not because I can't afford to pay the licence, I can, but because I think the BBC is bloated and wasteful. Very little of their output is public service broadcasting. Their news programs are often factually incorrect. The presenters can't speak English properly, and the whole programming is too PC. They play ludicrous salaries to Z list "celebrities".

    The BBC need to focus on improving quality, cutting back, and giving value for money. Until it does, they will not be getting any more of my money.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 19th Jul 19, 12:13 AM
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    Nick_C
    as a TV consumer don't want to see it reduced to the lowest common demoninator
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    In my opinion, it already has been
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 19th Jul 19, 7:12 AM
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    Cornucopia
    Which aren't covered by the "public service" remit, as you know.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Yes... but I'm also not convinced that they are covered by the "Public Purposes", either.

    The BBC is not prohibited from making money to subsidise the licence fee by licensing the programs it has produced or other commercial ventures...
    I think licensing content, selling it, and joint productions are all fine. I'm just not sure that they should be operating commercial channels in competition with the true commercial sector (and, indeed, with the PSB channels that are their primary purpose).

    ...but I as a TV consumer don't want to see it reduced to the lowest common demoninator / "Jeremy Kyle" level that commercial television operates at by being forced down an advertising or subscription based revenue system.
    I think that's something of a jaundiced view and it defies the fact that we also have C4, which is publicly-owned and commercially funded, and now UKTV which is also publicly-owned and commercially funded. If those 7 BBC-owned channels are "lowest common denominator TV" (and I don't think they are) then that would be the fault of the BBC.

    I found the other poster declaring the licence fee was antiquated hilarious, especially given that most European countries have a licence fee, often more expensive than ours or with the public service broadcaster also carrying advertising (something rarely mentioned by people opposed to it who try to paint the UK as a relic unique in the world in having one) and some, like the Danish, are far more draconian about who has to pay it than UK legislation is.
    Sure. There are also a lot countries that have no TV Licence including a growing number that have abolished it in recent years. In particular (and with a nod to post-Brexit allegiances), the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are all non-Licence countries.

    The problem for the BBC is that the TV Licence IS becoming increasingly antiquated. The number of Licence-free homes is growing as people desert linear TV. People increasingly will not tolerate the tone and content of TV Licensing communications. Most people with no need for a Licence are quite clear that the BBC's agents have no authority to demand that they prove their innocence.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 19-07-2019 at 7:14 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • TheLittleThings
    • By TheLittleThings 19th Jul 19, 8:11 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    TheLittleThings
    Thank you all for your input. I think I agree that it seems outdated and needs to be looked at. I personally don't have a TV licence (noun) as I don't watch telly that much, so only watch DVDs. However, I think it's a shame if people are prevented from watching other live TV that has nothing to do with the BBC without having a license to fund the BBC. It seems unfair on the viewers and on the other channels. It's like having to pay a company to grow tomatoes (which I don't eat) in order to eat lettuce from another company. Or maybe I just want to eat another company's tomatoes!

    So, we've done the Why. Now how. This seemingly unfair system seems to just be accepted. So how do people get a change to make it fairer?
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 19th Jul 19, 8:41 AM
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    Cornucopia
    So, we've done the Why. Now how. This seemingly unfair system seems to just be accepted. So how do people get a change to make it fairer?
    Originally posted by TheLittleThings
    The more I've looked into the TV Licence and its enforcement, the more I've come to believe that Government is not really interested in reforming the Licence Fee or the ridiculous enforcement processes that the BBC operates.

    That's a source of eternal shame on successive Governments who have simply taken the BBC's claims of a system that "basically works" with no professional curiosity whatsoever. Given that TV Licensing are sending millions of enforcement letters per year, and making millions of house call attempts, I find this lack of interest by Government to be completely baffling. Conspiracy theorists suggest that politicians live in fear of the BBC's potential for causing harm to their careers, and although that seems implausible, I struggle to come up with a better explanation.

    On which basis, I think a mass campaign (as happened in New Zealand) is beyond the UK. I think the best we can achieve is to support each other in each making the decision whether to vote with our viewing habits (or not).
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • pphillips
    • By pphillips 19th Jul 19, 11:56 AM
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    pphillips
    Not all people use catch up services especially the elderly.
    Originally posted by cajef
    I think this raises an important point with regards to the end of free tv licences for the over 75s. At the end of the day, they all need to be made aware of the different options available. Many of them who can't afford the tv licence or don't want to pay will need to be educated about becoming legally licence free and how to adapt to using catch up / on demand services instead.
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 19th Jul 19, 12:37 PM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    I think this raises an important point with regards to the end of free tv licences for the over 75s. At the end of the day, they all need to be made aware of the different options available. Many of them who can't afford the tv licence or don't want to pay will need to be educated about becoming legally licence free and how to adapt to using catch up / on demand services instead.
    Originally posted by pphillips
    Yup. They can save the 3 a week licence fee by spending 7.50 a week on getting fibre broadband.
    "There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe a 'Princess Coronation' locomotive in full cry. We shall never see their like again". O S Nock
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 19th Jul 19, 12:56 PM
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    • 14,602 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    Yup. They can save the 3 a week licence fee by spending 7.50 a week on getting fibre broadband.
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    If you're paying 30 per month in addition to your phone line rental for your Fibre, then you are paying way too much.

    Apparently, there are places online where you can go and seek money-saving advice from experts.

    A lot of older people will already have Broadband. For many people, ADSL will be good enough for catch-up, up to HD quality.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • pphillips
    • By pphillips 19th Jul 19, 4:17 PM
    • 588 Posts
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    pphillips
    Those who want access to even more BBC content without needing a tv licence will be able to get Britbox later this year for 5.99 a month, less than half the cost of a tv licence.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2019/07/itv-and-bbc-to-offer-new-streaming-service-for-p6-mth/
    • wild666
    • By wild666 20th Jul 19, 9:16 AM
    • 342 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    wild666
    On which basis, I think a mass campaign (as happened in New Zealand) is beyond the UK. I think the best we can achieve is to support each other in each making the decision whether to vote with our viewing habits (or not).
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    I can see June 2020 as the date there will be a mass non-compliance to purchase a TV Licence by pensioners and that might turn into those under 75 joining them. I have been licence free since ditching BT in 2016 but from 1983 to June 2009 I only had a licence for one year to June 2009 to 2010, from July 2012 to end of July 2016 that's five years, and I hardly watched any TV.
    Someone please tell me what money is
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 20th Jul 19, 3:50 PM
    • 2,581 Posts
    • 3,788 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    I'm going license free at the end of the month. Not because I can't afford to pay the licence, I can, but because I think the BBC is bloated and wasteful. Very little of their output is public service broadcasting. Their news programs are often factually incorrect. The presenters can't speak English properly, and the whole programming is too PC. They play ludicrous salaries to Z list "celebrities".
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    You sound like a slightly bilious retired Colonel in 1950s Cheltenham or Tunbridge Wells, but I think you've pretty well nailed all the cliches you hear from opponents of the BBC.

    As it happens I haven't had a licence since 1988, and that was a B&W one. The old TV went in the bin on the 1st October that year and I've never had a TV since.

    But if you think the news programmes are biased I can only suggest that you make yourself aware of the excesses of Fox News and their ilk.
    Last edited by silverwhistle; 20-07-2019 at 3:51 PM. Reason: spacing
    • pphillips
    • By pphillips 20th Jul 19, 5:47 PM
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    pphillips
    You sound like a slightly bilious retired Colonel in 1950s Cheltenham or Tunbridge Wells, but I think you've pretty well nailed all the cliches you hear from opponents of the BBC.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    Although no real mention of BBC controversies, such as the Jimmy Savile sexual abuse scandal.
    • wild666
    • By wild666 24th Jul 19, 1:42 PM
    • 342 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    wild666
    Its a TV broadcast licence not a BBC licence .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    If its a broadcast licence then why does the BBC get the money?
    Someone please tell me what money is
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 25th Jul 19, 7:36 AM
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    Cornucopia
    If its a broadcast licence then why does the BBC get the money?
    Originally posted by wild666
    It dates from a time (pre-1955) when the BBC was the only broadcaster, and therefore got the money.

    The idea in more recent years has been that the BBC can provide ad-free content for the public good, which raises more questions than it answers.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 25-07-2019 at 7:39 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • wild666
    • By wild666 25th Jul 19, 9:25 AM
    • 342 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    wild666
    It dates from a time (pre-1955) when the BBC was the only broadcaster, and therefore got the money.

    The idea in more recent years has been that the BBC can provide ad-free content for the public good, which raises more questions than it answers.
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    If the BBC took on adverts, would those adverts rake in more money than the licence fees do? If they would then why doesn't the BBC take on adverts and scrap the licence fee?
    Someone please tell me what money is
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