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  • FIRST POST
    • guppyyyy
    • By guppyyyy 5th Jul 19, 12:12 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    guppyyyy
    Can anyone help me get redundancy? :)
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 19, 12:12 AM
    Can anyone help me get redundancy? :) 5th Jul 19 at 12:12 AM
    Hello, probably an odd one for you guys, but I was wondering if anyone could help me. I do have another account, but it's in my real name so I've made another to ensure anonymity. I thought I'd post this here as I cant seem to find any threads like it and hopefully it may even be useful to someone that is in my position in the future.

    I've recently been transferred to a new company under the TUPE process. The new company has taken advantage of the TUPE and decided to restructure all of the job roles within it, to do so they've put all of the staff into consultation, including myself.

    So far they've listed the job roles that have been created, they have also ringfenced certain positions for those people who were doing similar positions before the restructure took place, which means my job is probably safe, however a year ago I started my own business and have been registered self employed, so the plan was to take the redundancy, use the savings to help support myself and have a real go at scaling the business.

    The problem is the company isnt offering voluntary redundancy, having asked them to clarify this in a group meeting yesterday, I was advised that it wouldn't be discussed publicly and it would be addressed individually "Depending on our needs" in our 1 to 1 meetings with HR.

    Is there anyway I can get out with redundancy? I work nights and the job role its self pretty much the same, however the pay has been cut by over 1000, the shifts have been lengthened, the rota has changed from 3 days on and 3 off to 4 days on and 4 off, and the hours have changed so I would start 3-4 hours later. This would genuinely play havoc with my family and social life.

    I've read about suitable positions, I've read about giving a really bad interview so they just refuse to take me. There are 2 other people that will be applying for the position, however one of them only has a years experience and less than two years service so I'm concerned that as a money saving exercise (Which is essentially all they've done so far) they will get rid of them and I'll just end up falling into the job.

    If anyone could give me any advice on how to proceed I'd be extremely grateful.

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 5th Jul 19, 7:56 AM
    • 36,912 Posts
    • 22,763 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 19, 7:56 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 19, 7:56 AM
    If the job is not the same one you have then I would go down the this is not a suitable alternative route initially.

    note:
    Family position is of low/no relevance in most cases.
    Social no relevance.


    Focus on the real changes like pay and number of hours if going up/down any changes in the actual job might also be relevant.

    If there are limited position and you know that at least some that can do this job have to go then making yourself less attractive can work but you have to be careful as some places they are smart enough to realise you are planning to leave anyway so just keep you and someone else on to save a payout.

    Does the company know about the business, does anyone working there know that could drop a hint(you do not want that to happen)?

    If they are going down the apply for your job rather than a proper selection process just don't apply.

    what are the union doing during this restructure?
    • guppyyyy
    • By guppyyyy 5th Jul 19, 11:16 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    guppyyyy
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 19, 11:16 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 19, 11:16 AM
    If there are limited position and you know that at least some that can do this job have to go then making yourself less attractive can work but you have to be careful as some places they are smart enough to realise you are planning to leave anyway so just keep you and someone else on to save a payout.
    Hi thanks for the reply, I was going to into the next meeting adamant that I didn't want the job, however it makes sense that this could cause them to take me on if they knew I was going to leave anyway.

    Does the company know about the business, does anyone working there know that could drop a hint(you do not want that to happen)?
    Yes, everyone that was TUPE'd across with me knows about the business, what are the potential ramifications of this?

    If they are going down the apply for your job rather than a proper selection process just don't apply
    Im a bit confused by this, my understanding was that if I didn't apply for a job I'd be treated as having resigned and would no longer be able to get redundancy?

    There a no unions involved, at least on my part anyway.

    I know you mentioned that family/social position is usually of no relevance, but surely seeing as my job terms directly affect this it should be take into account? e.g less wages means I have less money to pay my bills with?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 6th Jul 19, 6:52 AM
    • 36,912 Posts
    • 22,763 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 19, 6:52 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 19, 6:52 AM
    Hi thanks for the reply, I was going to into the next meeting adamant that I didn't want the job, however it makes sense that this could cause them to take me on if they knew I was going to leave anyway.

    Not everywhere would try this but it is a risk
    It helps if there are people more positive about staying.


    Yes, everyone that was TUPE'd across with me knows about the business, what are the potential ramifications of this?

    Increases the we know you were going to leave factor.

    Im a bit confused by this, my understanding was that if I didn't apply for a job I'd be treated as having resigned and would no longer be able to get redundancy?


    This is what they may tell you but you should only lose the redundancy if you refuse a suitable alternative position.

    You should not have to apply for jobs they should be considering you for any potential suitable alternative and using a selection process if more than one person is suitable.

    The problem with applying for a job is that if they offer it you have no real recourse to refuse as you have already accepted it as a suitable alternative by applying.

    One question to ask if they are insisting people apply is what if there are no suitable alternatives?
    If they come back with there is your current job(as changed) explain why you think it is not suitable and if it is then they should just give it to you or put you in a selection pool and apply the process.

    Make it clear that you are not applying for the job but entering the process to establish if the job on offer is a suitable alternative and retain the right to the trial period.

    It can get tricky because if they refuse to pay out then it will be ET time to resolve



    There a no unions involved, at least on my part anyway.
    if there are other in the union that you know you can talk to them to try to keep up to speed,

    if enough people involved there should be employee reps

    I know you mentioned that family/social position is usually of no relevance, but surely seeing as my job terms directly affect this it should be take into account? e.g less wages means I have less money to pay my bills with?
    Originally posted by guppyyyy
    Focus on the job stuff pay is a valid one there are guides out her that cover what can be considered.

    You have to be careful as things like the hours interfering with social life it not relevant, same with family life, there can be individual personal circumstances that may need to be considered like if you had caring responsibilities that need to be accommodated.


    In a lot of these situation it is a case of trying to judge how things will be handled, often there is a hidden preselection list anyway and the people they want to keep fit the selection process better than the ones they want to go.

    if predetermined and you are already on the keep list it is sometimes not easy to get off it.

    in some cases just becoming that annoying person that asks too many questions could help, being relatively new as part of a TUPE they may not have set the pecking order yet, .

    one thing if any of the people that did TUPE over are involved in the selection and you are on their "good guys" list try to get off it if you have their ear.
    • guppyyyy
    • By guppyyyy 9th Jul 19, 10:23 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    guppyyyy
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 19, 10:23 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 19, 10:23 PM
    Hi, thanks for the reply again. I took your advice and went into my 1 to 1 meeting today, I was expecting them to put up a fight, however after explaining why I thought the role theyd ringfenced wasnt suitable for me they agreed. Now I'm just waiting for a letter to confirm.

    Thanks again.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 10th Jul 19, 10:38 AM
    • 36,912 Posts
    • 22,763 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 19, 10:38 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 19, 10:38 AM
    That's a pretty amicable outcome.

    I would still play it careful, support the process and changes be flexible with dates if needed.

    There is still the risk that they change their minds if no one else wants the job and just leaves if their payout would be small.

    Do you know if the others are keen to stay?
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