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  • FIRST POST
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 19th Jun 19, 3:52 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Chlonatben
    VT confusion
    • #1
    • 19th Jun 19, 3:52 PM
    VT confusion 19th Jun 19 at 3:52 PM
    Hi everyone

    I have read a lot of useful info on the site. I could just do with some information regarding a Voluntary Termination that I entered into with Barclays Partner Finance. I had a car financed by them and my circumstances changed and I could no longer afford the car. I never missed a payment and was over the 50% time period. I contacted them to arrange the VT and everything seems to have gone ok. I had to pay a small amount of money but other than that nothing. I handed the car back at the Barclays designated auction house on 01/05/19. I had heard nothing from them until 24/05/19 when I telephoned them for info about when my credit file would be updated. During the telephone call I found that the car had already been sold on. I was told by the representative that a letter would be sent to me that covered a break down of what has happened to the car and any charges they are looking for me to pay. I took lots of photos of the car as advised on this site, so I'm not expecting to have to pay anything and as as far as I am concerned the car was in good working order and had a full MOT. To me, the fact that they have sold the car on already says it was in good order.

    They have come back to me saying that there is an outstanding balance of £1750 for wear and tear. I asked them for a breakdown of the charge but they have told me that it is the difference from what they thought the car was worth to what they actually resold for.

    Where do I stand with this?

    Looking forward to your help/advice

    Many thanks
Page 2
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 20th Jun 19, 10:33 AM
    • 4,624 Posts
    • 2,739 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    Thereís no balloon payment or option to buy.
    Originally posted by Chlonatben
    Would suggest it is not HP or PCP - so PCH.

    It would need to be a big deposit though.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Jun 19, 2:40 PM
    • 18,901 Posts
    • 11,701 Thanks
    motorguy
    O/P - just to confirm -this is an HP finance deal?

    (Before we go down the PCH rabbit hole any further)
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 20th Jun 19, 3:56 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Chlonatben
    LandyAndy - below are the figures for the purchase of the car and the figures that were on the statement. I had to pay £81.78 to put me over the 50% payment rule part of VT.

    Loan advance 9806.00
    Interest Amount 3981.80
    Doc Fee S 149.00
    Completion Fee 199.00
    Total 14135.80 DR

    Direct debit monthly payment 232.28 7399.68 DR
    Debit Card Payment 81.78 7284.94 DR
    Clear 1/2 Rule Bal 7317.90 32.96 CR

    Wear & Tear Charge 1750.00 1717.04 DR
    (this is the disputed charge they want me to pay)
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 20th Jun 19, 3:57 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Chlonatben
    It is a straight HP agreement though HPL motors Oldham
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 20th Jun 19, 4:10 PM
    • 13,010 Posts
    • 9,732 Thanks
    neilmcl
    It is a straight HP agreement though HPL motors Oldham
    Originally posted by Chlonatben
    Pleas read your original HP agreement rather than their final statement. In there there will be a section that will outline exactly what the Total Amount Payable is and the amount to pay to VT. Tell us exactly what this states.

    They cannot charge you for loss of market value, if it went to court they will definitely lose. If it is indeed excess wear & tear that goes beyond the BVRLA guideline then they must inform you exactly what that relates to.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 20th Jun 19, 4:14 PM
    • 4,624 Posts
    • 2,739 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    It is a straight HP agreement though HPL motors Oldham
    Originally posted by Chlonatben
    Hire Purchase but there is no option to buy it ?
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 20th Jun 19, 4:22 PM
    • 13,010 Posts
    • 9,732 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Hire Purchase but there is no option to buy it ?
    Originally posted by foxy-stoat
    That's because the final payment isn't optional. With a straightforward HP the purchase isn't "optional" as such as it will become the OP's property on the final month's payment. Optional final payments (otherwise known as balloon payments) are only really relevant on PCPs.
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 20th Jun 19, 5:38 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Chlonatben
    NeilMcl - those are the figures off the finance agreement
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 20th Jun 19, 6:39 PM
    • 7,295 Posts
    • 7,170 Thanks
    DoaM
    If the amount "borrowed" was £14,135.80 then the 50% VT point would be £7,067.90? I can't make sense of your statement figures.
    Last edited by DoaM; 20-06-2019 at 6:44 PM.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 20th Jun 19, 6:43 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Chlonatben
    DoaM - I paid the debit card payment over the phone when I rang up to inform them I was looking to enter into a VT.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 20th Jun 19, 6:45 PM
    • 7,295 Posts
    • 7,170 Thanks
    DoaM
    Sorry - I've edited my post while you were replying.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Nearlyold
    • By Nearlyold 20th Jun 19, 6:57 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,164 Thanks
    Nearlyold
    That's because the final payment isn't optional. With a straightforward HP the purchase isn't "optional" as such as it will become the OP's property on the final month's payment. Optional final payments (otherwise known as balloon payments) are only really relevant on PCPs.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Actually from a strictly legal viewpoint whether or not to take ownership of the goods at the end of the agreement is an option on all HP based agreements whether straightforward HP or PCP.

    At the end of a straightforward HP agreement, once all the other contracted payments have been made, the customer will normally pay an Option to Purchase fee (which can be zero - in the OP's case it's £199 and called a Completion Fee) which enables them to take legal title to the vehicle. However, the customer may decide not to pay the Option to Purchase fee and return the vehicle to the finance company if they wish even though the vehicle has effectively been paid for by this time. Once the customer has taken legal title they are entitled to sell the vehicle. An HP based PCP is simply a variation.

    HP agreements differ from Conditional Sale agreements in this respect, in the latter case title automatically transfers at the end of the agreement
    Last edited by Nearlyold; 20-06-2019 at 7:14 PM.
    • danny91
    • By danny91 20th Jun 19, 9:19 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    danny91
    Hang on. Please somebody correct me if Iím wrong, but, you bought a car 30 months ago for just over £9000 and it got sold last month for only £1900?? What car was it? What car depreciates that much, that quickly?
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 21st Jun 19, 12:45 AM
    • 12,033 Posts
    • 6,798 Thanks
    DUTR
    Hang on. Please somebody correct me if Iím wrong, but, you bought a car 30 months ago for just over £9000 and it got sold last month for only £1900?? What car was it? What car depreciates that much, that quickly?
    Originally posted by danny91
    Alfa's , Fiat to name 2.
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 21st Jun 19, 6:41 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Chlonatben
    danny91 - that was what I said to the finance when they told me they only got £1900 for it!! It was a merc c220 on a 61 plate by the way. I think they are trying to take me round a corner but I'm not having it!!
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 21st Jun 19, 6:42 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Chlonatben
    Thank you all for your input to my dilemma, but the question still remains what should I do if they pursue this and keep going for the outstanding balance they say I owe them?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Jun 19, 6:49 AM
    • 23,395 Posts
    • 22,374 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Hang on. Please somebody correct me if Iím wrong, but, you bought a car 30 months ago for just over £9000 and it got sold last month for only £1900?? What car was it? What car depreciates that much, that quickly?
    Originally posted by danny91
    One that's been badly treated during that time, especially if it was massively overpriced to start with.

    £1,900-worth of car with £1,750 of damage above wear and tear?
    • Chlonatben
    • By Chlonatben 21st Jun 19, 7:13 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Chlonatben
    AdrianC - I took the car to We buy any car and they valued it at £4100!! and you know what they are like!! There was no damage to the car and I've lots of pics of it on the day I took it back to the auction house.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 21st Jun 19, 7:22 AM
    • 18,901 Posts
    • 11,701 Thanks
    motorguy
    Thank you all for your input to my dilemma, but the question still remains what should I do if they pursue this and keep going for the outstanding balance they say I owe them?
    Originally posted by Chlonatben
    You need to attempt to

    (a) get talking to someone in the finance company who can explain why you have been charged. Fully explain why.

    On one hand they have told you the charge is for difference between valuation (?) and what it made at auction. In a VT scenario, this is not your concern.

    On the other hand they have billed you for "wear and tear", which if correct needs to be broken out and explained.

    Failing that, you will need to engage with a solicitor and have them do it.
    Last edited by motorguy; 21-06-2019 at 7:25 AM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 21st Jun 19, 7:23 AM
    • 4,690 Posts
    • 4,337 Thanks
    BoGoF
    You need to formally complain to them and ask on what basis they are pursuing you for the shortfall and where in the contract this was stipulated.
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