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  • FIRST POST
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 17th Jun 19, 3:07 PM
    • 69Posts
    • 15Thanks
    ncfcfan
    Help with 3rd party without MOT
    • #1
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:07 PM
    Help with 3rd party without MOT 17th Jun 19 at 3:07 PM
    Hello.

    Early last week, I was involved in an RTC that wasn't my fault. Unfortunately, there were no witnesses or CCTV to this event.

    1hr after the incident, the other driver called me to say he had no valid MOT. He offered me money for repairs. I checked, and his MOT has indeed expired. I told him I wouldn't commit to anything on the phone. Unfortunately I didn't record this conversation. That was the last I heard from him.

    Late last week his insurers called me to hear my side of the story, as they couldn't get in touch with him. After I had given my side, they called me back 20 minutes later to say they would accept responsibility providing he didn't dispute the story.

    The latest update today (from my insurers) is that the other driver is now not accepting responsibility. My insurers have asked me for a diagram of what exactly happened, which I have provided today. I've been advised not to speak the 3rd party insurers again.

    The police, to my knowledge, don't know about his lack of MOT. Yet.

    Please do let me know what you think, and what I should do.
Page 1
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 17th Jun 19, 3:11 PM
    • 4,621 Posts
    • 2,736 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    • #2
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:11 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:11 PM
    It would be irrelevant for your claim - the third party insurers will know about the lack of MOT but they will still pay out if their driver is at fault.

    If you want to grass him up to the police then thats up to you...bare in mind that they will probably do zero and if they do it is a minimal fine for no MOT, unless he was driving a dangerous car.
    • TonyMMM
    • By TonyMMM 17th Jun 19, 3:12 PM
    • 2,890 Posts
    • 3,323 Thanks
    TonyMMM
    • #3
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:12 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:12 PM
    The lack of the MOT isn't going to be a major issue - unless you are alleging it has some connection to the cause of the accident (unlikely).

    His insurance company may reduce the value of his car ( to reflect the lack of MOT) if he makes a claim through them, but it has no effect on the validity of his insurance.

    Police are unlikely to be that interested, I'd just keep dealing with your insurers, and concentrate on dealing with your claim and providing whatever evidence you can to show where the fault was.
    • bengalknights
    • By bengalknights 17th Jun 19, 3:15 PM
    • 4,605 Posts
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    bengalknights
    • #4
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:15 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:15 PM
    As above the MOT has no relevance to your claim now if he wasnt insured that would be another matter.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 17th Jun 19, 3:25 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    • #5
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:25 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:25 PM
    Thanks for your replies.

    I understand that it doesn't invalidate my claim, as long as he accepts responsibility.

    So what you're saying is, I can't really threaten to grass him up if he doesn't accept responsibility? I can't use this to my advantage at all?
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 17th Jun 19, 3:27 PM
    • 7,049 Posts
    • 10,214 Thanks
    spadoosh
    • #6
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:27 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:27 PM
    The status of someone elses MOT on their car is completely irrelevant to me.

    If youre concerned about other road users and the safety of the car consider the fact that the MOT happens once a year, many cars fail their MOT's and its probably incredibly unlikely they failed in the time they parked their car at the MOT station and it actually being tested.

    Of course its against the law to drive a car without an MOT in the UK. Although there is no obligation for you to report law breaking.

    The MOT status of the car is irrelevant in establishing fault. Its irrelevant in any claim you make against his insurance company.

    The only outcome of you reporting no MOT, if its not found anyway, is a fine for the driver to a maximum of £1000.
    Don't be angry!
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 17th Jun 19, 3:29 PM
    • 7,049 Posts
    • 10,214 Thanks
    spadoosh
    • #7
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:29 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:29 PM
    Thanks for your replies.

    I understand that it doesn't invalidate my claim, as long as he accepts responsibility.

    So what you're saying is, I can't really threaten to grass him up if he doesn't accept responsibility? I can't use this to my advantage at all?
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    You could.

    You would risk being prosecuted for bribery though which is a criminal conviction and can carry up to 10 years in prison.
    Don't be angry!
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 17th Jun 19, 3:29 PM
    • 4,621 Posts
    • 2,736 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:29 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:29 PM
    Thanks for your replies.

    I understand that it doesn't invalidate my claim, as long as he accepts responsibility.

    So what you're saying is, I can't really threaten to grass him up if he doesn't accept responsibility? I can't use this to my advantage at all?
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    Not really no, he is not going to change his account of events now, if he does and he declares that you are pressuring him then that may not go down well either.

    Third Party insurers always deny liability where it is not a clear cut accident or no witnesses. What has your insurers said about your version of events and the likely of a non fault outcome?
    • jk0
    • By jk0 17th Jun 19, 4:13 PM
    • 3,035 Posts
    • 26,549 Thanks
    jk0
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 19, 4:13 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 19, 4:13 PM
    I have to say I'm surprised to read here everyone saying that insurance is valid even without an MOT. I just googled, and this came up from Directline:


    https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/van-insurance/knowledge-centre/running-your-van/driving-without-MOT


    Is my car or van insurance valid without an MOT?

    In most cases, as soon as your MOT expires, your insurance will no longer be valid. So if you have an accident, your van wonít be covered by your insurance provider and youíll have to pay for repairs yourself Ė or potentially have your van written off. If the accident was your fault, youíll also have to pay for the damage caused to any other vehicles involved, which could be very expensive. And, because itís also illegal to drive without valid insurance, if youíre caught, you can face an unlimited fine or even disqualification from driving, plus 6 to 8 penalty points.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 17th Jun 19, 4:16 PM
    • 4,621 Posts
    • 2,736 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    I have to say I'm surprised to read here everyone saying that insurance is valid even without an MOT. I just googled, and this came up from Directline:


    https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/van-insurance/knowledge-centre/running-your-van/driving-without-MOT
    Originally posted by jk0
    No one is saying his insurance is invalid or not, the Third Party insurers are duty bound to settle any claim if their driver was at fault, if they choose to recover the costs against their driver for lack of MOT then its down to them.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 17th Jun 19, 4:19 PM
    • 4,239 Posts
    • 2,664 Thanks
    Car 54
    You could.

    You would risk being prosecuted for bribery though which is a criminal conviction and can carry up to 10 years in prison.
    Originally posted by spadoosh

    Bribery? Surely blackmail.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 17th Jun 19, 4:21 PM
    • 4,239 Posts
    • 2,664 Thanks
    Car 54
    I have to say I'm surprised to read here everyone saying that insurance is valid even without an MOT. I just googled, and this came up from Directline:


    https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/van-insurance/knowledge-centre/running-your-van/driving-without-MOT
    Originally posted by jk0

    I believe that clause is unenforceable. I can't remember offhand whether it was a court or the Ombudsman who ruled on it, but no doubt some expert on here will know.
    • tberry6686
    • By tberry6686 17th Jun 19, 4:26 PM
    • 1,037 Posts
    • 994 Thanks
    tberry6686
    Ombudsman has regularly ruled that no MOT does not invalidate insurance (even though some insurers try to claim it does)
    • kimplus8
    • By kimplus8 17th Jun 19, 4:32 PM
    • 760 Posts
    • 2,208 Thanks
    kimplus8
    what a sticky situation to be in. I think you are focusing on the wrong issue. Forget the MOT, just focus on gathering as much supporting documentation as you can for your claim and hope that his insurance company pays out. obtain written reports from the garage, provide diagrams and a detailed written description of your version of events.
    hope its goes well.
    Mum to 8 troopersDave Ramsey and Martin Lewis are my Money Saving Heros.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 17th Jun 19, 4:38 PM
    • 4,621 Posts
    • 2,736 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    I believe that clause is unenforceable. I can't remember offhand whether it was a court or the Ombudsman who ruled on it, but no doubt some expert on here will know.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Having read through my Direct line Policy Booklet, it does not mention anyway about the vehicle having a valid MOT.
    • gollum007
    • By gollum007 17th Jun 19, 6:46 PM
    • 246 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    gollum007
    To point out-
    The linked Direct Line booklet is from commercial (i.e. van) insurance.

    A business will be held to a much higher duty of care than a private individual, and they will be assumed to have done appropriate due-diligence.

    In a buisness context, that sort of clause *may* well be enforcable
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 17th Jun 19, 7:00 PM
    • 2,392 Posts
    • 870 Thanks
    sevenhills
    1hr after the incident, the other driver called me to say he had no valid MOT.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan

    Click on the link and enter his registration number. See how long he was without MOT and if there are any advisories, like brakes, that could have a bearing on the acident.


    https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

    • TooManyPoints
    • By TooManyPoints 17th Jun 19, 7:15 PM
    • 247 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    TooManyPoints
    Section 148 of the Road Traffic Act prevents insurers denying Third Party liability for a number of reasons. One of these is "the condition of the vehicle" and this would almost certainly stretch to MoT issues. As well as this there is an EU directive which goes even further and provides very few grounds for insurers to deny liability. Lack of a valid MoT is certainly not one of those grounds. Quite frankly I'm astonished that any insurer should utter "In most cases, as soon as your MOT expires, your insurance will no longer be valid.". Even worse is for them to go on and explain that drivers caught driving a vehicle with no MoT are also likely to face a "No Insurance" charge. Of course if this was the case every charge of no MoT would also be accompanied by a far more serious No Insurance charge. Even the most elementary of research will show that this is simply not the case.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 17th Jun 19, 8:17 PM
    • 4,649 Posts
    • 4,126 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Bribery? Surely blackmail.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Indeed, which is up to 14 years rather than 10
    • Scrapit
    • By Scrapit 18th Jun 19, 5:59 AM
    • 591 Posts
    • 212 Thanks
    Scrapit
    Hello.

    Early last week, I was involved in an RTC that wasn't my fault. Unfortunately, there were no witnesses or CCTV to this event.

    1hr after the incident, the other driver called me to say he had no valid MOT. He offered me money for repairs. I checked, and his MOT has indeed expired. I told him I wouldn't commit to anything on the phone. Unfortunately I didn't record this conversation. That was the last I heard from him.

    Late last week his insurers called me to hear my side of the story, as they couldn't get in touch with him. After I had given my side, they called me back 20 minutes later to say they would accept responsibility providing he didn't dispute the story.

    The latest update today (from my insurers) is that the other driver is now not accepting responsibility. My insurers have asked me for a diagram of what exactly happened, which I have provided today. I've been advised not to speak the 3rd party insurers again.

    The police, to my knowledge, don't know about his lack of MOT. Yet.

    Please do let me know what you think, and what I should do.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    Sounds like you have done all you should.
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