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  • FIRST POST
    • BRS7
    • By BRS7 19th Jun 19, 4:29 PM
    • 41Posts
    • 10Thanks
    BRS7
    Faulty second hand car
    • #1
    • 19th Jun 19, 4:29 PM
    Faulty second hand car 19th Jun 19 at 4:29 PM
    Hi all,

    I'm hoping you can clarify whether I have grounds to push forward/make a claim regarding a second hand car I bought from a trader that has given me nothing but grief! Brief details below...

    The car was purchased in February for £5600, it's a 2003 but with low mileage (46000). It was paid via bank transfer but some of the money used was through bank loan. (The car has now done 52000 miles).

    Very soon after purchasing the car started having intermittent gearbox faults, the car would stall (it's an auto!), the gearbox fault light would come on and the car would go into limp mode. This is the main problem, the car also had a battery drain issue, faulty PDC sensor and faulty o2 sensor. The latter problems are things I may expect for a car of this age and did not bother me so much.

    I used to work in a dealership of the same manufacturer so have lots of experienced technician friends so I did not both the trader to begin with as I thought I was best placed to get it fixed. Unfortunately it seems the problem is hard to diagnose and is costing lots of time and money, i've been having to borrow cars and on one occasion I couldn't make it into work.

    In May I decided to text the trader to make him aware of the problems but stated that I wasn't going to ask him for anything at that point. A few days ago I decided that the car was causing me too much grief so emailed him (after not being able to get through to him by phone) detailing the problems I text him about further and asking for his assistance. His response was that he wouldn't help toward the cost of repair as I had waited too long and continued to use the car which may have made the problem worse. The advice of my technician friends was that it would not cause further problems with the car unless I drove it in limp mode (which I don't, unless i'm half way through a journey and it doesn't reset after turning ignition off and on).

    I have limited knowledge about the consumer rights act 2015 but understand that within 6 months if the car is faulty then it must be repaired at the cost of the trader and it is down to him to disprove that the issue wasn't there at time of purchase. I honestly believe that the fault was there at time of purchase, or intermittently before time of purchase...

    Is the trader right, will I struggle as I didn't inform him as soon as it happened? Or do I still have grounds to pursue?

    I appreciate your help and advice in advance,

    B
Page 1
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 19th Jun 19, 4:31 PM
    • 12,037 Posts
    • 6,802 Thanks
    DUTR
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 19, 4:31 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 19, 4:31 PM
    Don't you feel your technician friend is correct as it suits you?
    • bobleah
    • By bobleah 19th Jun 19, 4:33 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    bobleah
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 19, 4:33 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 19, 4:33 PM
    Have you tried ringing the Citizens Advice Bureau? I had a similar problem with an old car and they were really helpful. It was a couple of months since I had bought the car and though it had an issue with the clutch. The advisor on the phone gave me detailed instructions on how to approach the matter, and didn't seem concerned with the fact that it had been a couple of months, as the problem was there from the very start.

    I'd give them a ring and see what they say!
    • angrycrow
    • By angrycrow 19th Jun 19, 4:42 PM
    • 718 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    angrycrow
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 19, 4:42 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 19, 4:42 PM
    As soon as you noticed the faults you should have approached the trader to give him an opportunity to inspect and repair. By taking the car elsewhere and allowing others to work on it you have deprived him the opportunity to repair. Cost unlikely to be recoverable and after 4 months of other people messing with it you will struggle to prove a pre existing fault and he will point the finger at the people who have worked on it since.

    High value old car with problematic auto box sounds like an AUDI with a multitronic box.
    • BRS7
    • By BRS7 19th Jun 19, 5:13 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BRS7
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:13 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:13 PM
    People messing with it? Faults were read, then cleared. Aftermarket headunit was removed due to possible electro-magnetic interference (impossible to make issues worse). Battery and alternator replaced. They're the facts. Nothing has been "messed with" and the above would not make matters worse.

    It is not an Audi and it is not down to me to prove the fault was there, it's for him to disprove.

    So thanks angrycrow, but no thanks.

    DUTR - no, I trust a master technician over a used car salesman...

    bobleah, thank you for your advice, I will certainly call the Citizens Advice Bureau tomorrow. I have contacted a solicitor already and am waiting for a reply from them.

    B
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 19th Jun 19, 5:18 PM
    • 12,037 Posts
    • 6,802 Thanks
    DUTR
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:18 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:18 PM
    People messing with it? Faults were read, then cleared. Aftermarket headunit was removed due to possible electro-magnetic interference (impossible to make issues worse). Battery and alternator replaced. They're the facts. Nothing has been "messed with" and the above would not make matters worse.

    It is not an Audi and it is not down to me to prove the fault was there, it's for him to disprove.

    So thanks angrycrow, but no thanks.

    DUTR - no, I trust a master technician over a used car salesman...

    bobleah, thank you for your advice, I will certainly call the Citizens Advice Bureau tomorrow. I have contacted a solicitor already and am waiting for a reply from them.

    B
    Originally posted by BRS7
    Well I understand everyone responds differently, in the days when I was purchasing previously owned cars, I would take along someone experienced to view and look over the car.
    At the time of purchase may have been a good time to have the master technician with you, if they were not available then I would have held off until they were available, if the vehicle went in the meantime, well there will always be other examples.
    • BRS7
    • By BRS7 19th Jun 19, 5:21 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BRS7
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:21 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:21 PM
    I took a master technician with me before I bought the car, but there is only so much that can be checked. As I mentioned this is an intermittent fault that could be caused by something as small as a dodgy earth so impossible to have known about it before purchasing unless they allowed me a weeks worth of test driving...
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 19th Jun 19, 5:28 PM
    • 12,037 Posts
    • 6,802 Thanks
    DUTR
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:28 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 19, 5:28 PM
    I took a master technician with me before I bought the car, but there is only so much that can be checked. As I mentioned this is an intermittent fault that could be caused by something as small as a dodgy earth so impossible to have known about it before purchasing unless they allowed me a weeks worth of test driving...
    Originally posted by BRS7
    there are only x amount of earth points on the vehicle, the technician would know or have a source to identify all of them.
    Persue a claim as many seem to like to have a consumer fight, in the meantime you have to use time resource and perhaps miss days off work to get this resolved or sell the vehicle and put it to experience.
    • a.turner
    • By a.turner 19th Jun 19, 7:35 PM
    • 623 Posts
    • 257 Thanks
    a.turner
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 19, 7:35 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 19, 7:35 PM
    People messing with it? Faults were read, then cleared. Aftermarket headunit was removed due to possible electro-magnetic interference (impossible to make issues worse). Battery and alternator replaced. They're the facts. Nothing has been "messed with" and the above would not make matters worse.

    It is not an Audi and it is not down to me to prove the fault was there, it's for him to disprove.

    So thanks angrycrow, but no thanks.

    DUTR - no, I trust a master technician over a used car salesman...

    bobleah, thank you for your advice, I will certainly call the Citizens Advice Bureau tomorrow. I have contacted a solicitor already and am waiting for a reply from them.

    B
    Originally posted by BRS7
    Just because you say so doesn't make it a fact.

    The way this is going you'd best reject the car and see the dealer in court. So I'd source another car now because rejecting means stop driving it.
    • BRS7
    • By BRS7 19th Jun 19, 7:48 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BRS7
    Yes, they are facts.

    Another fact is that I can’t reject the car, it’s past 30 days.

    I’m not getting the useful tips here that I thought I might gain. I’ll sell it on so it’s someone else’s problem...
    • a.turner
    • By a.turner 19th Jun 19, 7:53 PM
    • 623 Posts
    • 257 Thanks
    a.turner
    Yes, they are facts.

    Another fact is that I canít reject the car, itís past 30 days.

    Iím not getting the useful tips here that I thought I might gain. Iíll sell it on so itís someone elseís problem...
    Originally posted by BRS7
    Wrong again.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 19th Jun 19, 8:05 PM
    • 23,456 Posts
    • 22,510 Thanks
    AdrianC
    The car was purchased in February for £5600, it's a 2003
    Originally posted by BRS7
    So 16yo

    but with low mileage (46000).
    ...
    (The car has now done 52000 miles).
    And you've done 6k in it in the 4-5mo you've had it.

    I used to work in a dealership of the same manufacturer so have lots of experienced technician friends so I did not both the trader to begin with as I thought I was best placed to get it fixed.
    ...
    In May I decided to text the trader to make him aware of the problems
    So in 3-4 months various people worked on it before you contacted the vendor.

    I have limited knowledge about the consumer rights act 2015 but understand that within 6 months if the car is faulty then it must be repaired at the cost of the trader and it is down to him to disprove that the issue wasn't there at time of purchase. I honestly believe that the fault was there at time of purchase, or intermittently before time of purchase...
    Nowhere near that simple.

    If a fault is present within 6mo, then - yes - the onus is on the vendor to show it wasn't present at the time of sale.
    BUT this only applies to a fault that isn't reasonable to expect on goods of that age/price/apparent condition. And all bets are off if you get other people working on the goods beforehand. Did they introduce the issue?

    You're talking about a 16yo car that you've done 6k in. Honestly? You are on your own...
    • BRS7
    • By BRS7 19th Jun 19, 8:33 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BRS7
    The fault started before anyone looked at it for me (except doing a full service) and before I started a daily commute in it, however I appreciate your thoughts and will put it on the market.

    Live and learn...
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 19th Jun 19, 8:40 PM
    • 23,456 Posts
    • 22,510 Thanks
    AdrianC
    The fault started before anyone looked at it for me (except doing a full service) and before I started a daily commute in it
    Originally posted by BRS7
    So you say, however since you didn't raise the issue with the trader, it's a he-said-she-said...

    however I appreciate your thoughts and will put it on the market.
    With all faults fully declared, I do hope...?
    • angrycrow
    • By angrycrow 19th Jun 19, 8:46 PM
    • 718 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    angrycrow
    I'm sorry what response would you like us to give to make you feel that you have a right and moral fight to pursue.

    I will stand by what I said and wish you luck with your long and drawn out fight that might well see you loose a lot of time and money.
    • natlol
    • By natlol 19th Jun 19, 9:43 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    natlol
    I have nothing much to add but you do have my sympathy. I had a similar intermittent fault after a auto gearbox rebuild and it turned out to be the valve body. I got scared to drive the thing as you never knew when the gearbox was going to throw a wobbly and go into limp mode. I spent far too much time and money chasing the fault so my advice to you would be to get rid of it.
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