Smart Meters - Ask me anything!

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  • System
    System Posts: 178,090 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    SS_178 wrote: »
    Can you please explain whats happening here?
    Also if a PC / Smartphone can be connected to HAN, does that leaves a scope for a potential security breach?

    GCHQ has reviewed the threat and recommended improvements to the built in security of the smart meter system. However, there is no such thing as 100% security. A bigger worry has emerged recently. If smart meters are taken offline by an attack on the remote disconnection technology, then there is no simple way of updating the meter firmware. Connectivity is designed to send short bursts of data to the DCC ( to keep costs down) not to support large downloads of firmware.

    Quote: Upgrading would be easy if the meters had a high speed wireless connection, but they don’t. In order to minimise the ongoing communications cost, i.e. their annual mobile contract cost, smart metering systems are designed with hardware and a communications infrastructure which only supports very low data rates. Meters typically send just a few hundred bytes of data to the server each day and rarely need any data to be sent back. To make this efficient, networks are optimised for data being sent from meters, not to them. They are not designed to send firmware update files to millions of meters at the same time. SMETS2 makes the situation worse, as its complexity means these update files may be several Megabytes in size. The spec allows for meters to be gradually updated as an ongoing maintenance activity, but if an update needs to be applied to millions of meters, it could take days or even months. Unquote

    Source: Nick Hunn

    http://www.nickhunn.com/smart-meter-update/
  • lstar337
    lstar337 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    I got a call from EDF yesterday (they have been hassling the OH for a couple of weeks) about a smart meter upgrade.

    Call went like this:

    EDF: We are in the area doing smart meter upgrades and would like to know whether you would like a morning or afternoon appointment? (note the wording gives no option to say no)

    Me: I wouldn't like either thanks as I'm not interested in a smart meter upgrade right now.

    EDF: Oh (real surprise in voice), is there a particular reason you don't want a smart meter?

    Me: Yes. I know you are trying to offload a lot of first generation meters, and I'm not interested in a first generation meter that is already out of date.

    EDF: Ah, well no need to worry about that as we are rolling them out now and will upgrade them via a software update at a later date.

    Me: As far as I'm aware that isn't possible as the hardware isn't supported.

    EDF: Well I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it isn't what we are being told here.

    Me: OK, so are the meters you are installing fully SMETS2 compliant?

    EDF: Um, No they are SMETS1 meters as SMETS2 meters will not be available until later in the year.

    Me: Well I'm not interested in changing my meter until you can offer me a SMETS2 compliant meter. Otherwise I will be stuck with a SMETS1 meter that will be completely useless if I switch supplier.

    EDF: Right, OK. Thank you for your time.

    Me: No worries. Feel free to call back when you have the SMETS2 meters, I'll be happy to accept an upgrade.

    A bit annoyed that they tried to BS me and then make out my information source was no good, when actually they were talking rubbish. Soon backed off when they realised I knew exactly what I was talking about though. :rotfl:

    The CS comments on software updating are made even more interesting by what Hengus has posted above!
  • SS_178
    SS_178 Posts: 9 Forumite
    Hengus wrote: »
    DCC is live. However, suppliers are permitted to count SMETS 1 meters against their SMETS2 roll out target until the Autumn of this year. If you were a supplier, with a warehouse full of SMETS 1 meters what would you do?

    There are no plans to upgrade these meters to the SMETS2 standard. Govt has directed that the DCC and suppliers are to find a way of 'orphaning' these meters on to the DCC infrastructure by 2020.

    I understand that, thank you. But there are smaller suppliers who are not sitting on any 'pile' of SMETS1 and are willing to install SMETS2 yet are unable to do so due to some issues with DCC infrastructure. What's that?

    What do you mean by 'orphaning' here? Is it not the case that these old SMETS1 meters will be integrated into DCC network remotely where technically possible rather being completely abondoned?
  • Raxiel
    Raxiel Posts: 1,398 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    SS_178 wrote: »
    I understand that, thank you. But there are smaller suppliers who are not sitting on any 'pile' of SMETS1 and are willing to install SMETS2 yet are unable to do so due to some issues with DCC infrastructure. What's that?

    What do you mean by 'orphaning' here? Is it not the case that these old SMETS1 meters will be integrated into DCC network remotely where technically possible rather being completely abondoned?

    I don't think 'Orphaning' is the correct term. The SMETS1 meters are orphaned when a consumer switches away from the meter's 'parent' supplier. The plan is for the DCC to adopt orphaned meters back into the smart network.
    3.6 kW PV in the Midlands - 9x Sharp 400W black panels - 6x facing SE and 3x facing SW, Solaredge Optimisers and Inverter. 400W Derril Water (one day). Octopus Flux
  • SS_178
    SS_178 Posts: 9 Forumite
    Raxiel wrote: »
    I don't think 'Orphaning' is the correct term. The SMETS1 meters are orphaned when a consumer switches away from the meter's 'parent' supplier. The plan is for the DCC to adopt orphaned meters back into the smart network.

    Agree, that's my understanding as well.

    Cheers!:j
  • SS_178
    SS_178 Posts: 9 Forumite
    SS_178 wrote: »
    Agree, that's my understanding as well.

    Cheers!:j


    Also - Dailymail report quotes EDF, "Even energy boss admits smart meters aren't that smart! EDF chief says £11bn plan to introduce them nationally will face 'many challenges".
    "...problems with the communication infrastructure mean modern models may not be isssued"


    So something is not up to date at DCC, what's that, if anyone knows?
  • System
    System Posts: 178,090 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    edited 20 April 2017 at 4:06PM
    SS_178 wrote: »
    I understand that, thank you. But there are smaller suppliers who are not sitting on any 'pile' of SMETS1 and are willing to install SMETS2 yet are unable to do so due to some issues with DCC infrastructure. What's that?

    What do you mean by 'orphaning' here? Is it not the case that these old SMETS1 meters will be integrated into DCC network remotely where technically possible rather being completely abondoned?

    'Orphaning' in the sense of adoption. The consultation out at the moment suggests that SMETS1 meters will have a communications unit change and a separate/dedicated Gateway into the DCC infrastructure. As far as I can tell from the consultation document, it is not intended to update the firmware to SMETS2 compliance.

    https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/317173/15443_factsheet_a_e_v4.pdf
  • Jay_patel
    Jay_patel Posts: 2 Newbie
    I have been advised by SSE that they are unable to install a gas smart meter as my current meter has an induction joint. They mentioned that there were suppliers out there that could install the smart meters. British gas gave me the same feedback when making enquiries with them. Do you know of any companies that have the ability to fit gas meters on setups with induction joints.
  • fewkeste
    fewkeste Posts: 534 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    I knew nothing about Smart meters until I found and read all 8 pages of this thread. I've found it very informative and I would like to thank all contributors for increasing my knowledge and particularly Istar337 for alerting people to the potential situation of suppliers attempting to 'dump' SMETS1 meters on unsuspecting consumers as a way of filling their installation quotas.

    If I've understood correctly, when/if those consumers with SMETS1 meters installed switch provider, their meters (for the foreseeable future) become dumb meters. Is that right?

    I'm in the process of moving to Powershop and may as result be provided with a Smart meter. The following stance is what I want comments on please.

    Is it a reasonable strategy/position to refuse to have a smart meter fitted unless it's a SMETS2 compliant model?

    Is this a wise strategy or a Luddite viewpoint?

    Comments and advice please.
  • molerat
    molerat Posts: 31,804 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Post First Anniversary
    edited 22 April 2017 at 5:31PM
    fewkeste wrote: »

    Is it a reasonable strategy/position to refuse to have a smart meter fitted unless it's a SMETS2 compliant model?

    Is this a wise strategy or a Luddite viewpoint?

    Comments and advice please.
    A perfectly sensible viewpoint. Most certainly not a Luddite - those weaving machines would probably still be working as advertised, a SMETS1 meter will not be. ;)
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