Pensions General Strike In France.

Always healthy I think to contrast and compare the UK's pension situation with a comparator nation like France.
Takeaways from me are the current state pension age in France being a youthful 62 and the relatively low pension spend of the UK at 6% of GDP compared with France at 14%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50643323
“Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧
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  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 27,949
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    Is France also a pay as you go scheme with all the demographic challenges that presents?
    I think....
  • Marcon
    Marcon Posts: 10,322
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    Comparisons are fine where the comparator's circumstances are comparable to ours. What makes you believe France is such a comparator?
    Googling on your question might have been both quicker and easier, if you're only after simple facts rather than opinions!  
  • Tromking
    Tromking Posts: 2,691
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    Marcon wrote: »
    Comparisons are fine where the comparator's circumstances are comparable to ours. What makes you believe France is such a comparator?

    Almost identical sized economy and population, liberal western democracy, ageing population...........
    “Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧
  • Mick70
    Mick70 Posts: 727
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    62 seems quite young, good luck to them.
    the SP age here will increase sooner rather than later, it has to with an aeging population, I think it will become age 70 within the next 15 years or so. Any later though and could see mass industrial action in this country as it starts to become pointless.
  • Takeaways from me are the current state pension age in France being a youthful 62 and the relatively low pension spend of the UK at 6% of GDP compared with France at 14%.

    Part of the reason is the age differential at which they start, and I suspect that the main reason for the GDP differential is that French pensions are largely unfunded (pay as you go) and UK still has a significant funded DB system in terms of pensions in payment.

    Bottom line is, if you want a higher pension earlier, you've got to pay for it. To be fair to many politicians (just once!), they have been trying to address that here and in France, but all they get is a bunch of WASPIs in the UK, and a mass of gilets in France jumping up and down saying it's not fair - they would presumably be happy that their children and grandchildren pick up the tab for it. People don't like getting told hard truths.
  • DairyQueen
    DairyQueen Posts: 1,822
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    Tromking wrote: »
    Always healthy I think to contrast and compare the UK's pension situation with a comparator nation like France.
    Takeaways from me are the current state pension age in France being a youthful 62 and the relatively low pension spend of the UK at 6% of GDP compared with France at 14%.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50643323
    The cost of France's expensive welfare system (including pensions) falls disproportionately on French businesses. Employing people in France is very costly. This perhaps explains why internationals are loathe to locate to France, and also why many French companies choose to expand by relocating to other EU states.

    A few years ago Mr DQ was working for a German international. He was managing the implementation of a new company within the EU. 'Anywhere but France' was the first decision - the above reasons apply.

    Spain was the location chosen from the short-list.
  • Tromking wrote: »
    Takeaways from me are the current state pension age in France being a youthful 62

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50643323
    That's an over-simplification from the BBC, since it neglects to mention the reduction incurred by taking the pension 5 years early at 62.

    More detail on the French state pension here:
    https://www.expatica.com/fr/finance/retirement/french-pension-guide-the-french-pension-system-for-expats-830117/
    The legal minimum or earliest retirement age in France is 62 (or 60 if born before 1 July 1951), although five years are added before you reach official French pension age and are entitled to draw your full French pension. Workers born after 1 January 1955 are not entitled to a full French state pension until they are 67.

    To put that in context, my OH has a UK state pension age of 65, but a French state pension age of 66 years and 2 months. He decided to apply for his French pension a year early due to Brexit-related uncertainty, and the French pension was reduced accordingly.

    More details on pensions in France, i.e. Retraite De Base and compulsory (and expensive) Retraite Compl!mentaire system:
    https://www.justlanded.com/english/France/Articles/Jobs/French-State-Pensions
  • woolly_wombat
    woolly_wombat Posts: 819
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    edited 5 December 2019 at 1:57PM
    DairyQueen wrote: »
    Employing people in France is very costly. This perhaps explains why internationals are loathe to locate to France, and also why many French companies choose to expand by relocating to other EU states.
    To illustrate this point further, the company for which my OH worked in France was taken over by global operator after he left, as part of a competition-gobbling exercise.

    The new owners thought they could lay off all the French workers quickly and easily to cut costs.

    That proved to be a very expensive mistake!
    .
  • Tromking
    Tromking Posts: 2,691
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    Although I referenced the state pension age, I think the major driver of today’s protests is the proposed reform of public sector pensions.
    Sky News reported this morning that most public servants can take their full pension at 55 and in some cases they are payable at around 51. From my recollection accessing a pension with a retirement age of 55 in the U.K. public sector ended over 30 years ago.
    In comparison to France, pension reform in the U.K. has been swingeing and a regular occurrence. Unlike France it looks like.
    “Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧
  • I believe that, from memory, it used to be allowed to retire at the legal minimum pension age in France without reduction so long as you had around 40 years contributions.

    So rather like the old Rule of 85 for LGPS, but applied nationally.

    Some of OH's former colleagues retired at around 60 on full, very generous, pensions but those days are over and people aren't very happy about it.

    Unlike in this country, where youngsters swallow the bitter pill of later retirement, the French are a lot more vocal and better organised at making their views known!
    .
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