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Just a question as you haven't explained when you and your wife moved in together.
Did you tell them that you had children in your household? They should have taken the stepson into account from the time you and your wife moved in together if child benefit was still being paid for him, if you notified them of the birth of your 3 yr old then they should have been taken into account too.
To be honest from experience, when looking into paying back any debt owed they will not be taking into consideration that your wife is not working, that you have a young child (other than giving the standard reduction in assessment), or that you are supporting a child through uni (at all)
I back up what others say that you should ask for a sar to make sure that any changes you have notified them of have been acted upon correctly and to have any reductions (such as having a 3 yr old) that may have been missed (rightly or wrongly) applied asap to minimise the impact on any debt you may have going forward. I'm not sure how the current change of circumstances are being applied but if it is a case of from when they are notified the quicker they are told the quicker your assessment will reduce.
With regards to Sambella's comment, unfortunately whether the Deduction Order was issued rightly or wrongly you were notified of the correct assessment amount and the standard response would be that if you saw this was not being taken then it is your responsibility to make sure it is paid.0 -
Just a question as you haven't explained when you and your wife moved in together.
Did you tell them that you had children in your household? They should have taken the stepson into account from the time you and your wife moved in together if child benefit was still being paid for him, if you notified them of the birth of your 3 yr old then they should have been taken into account too.
To be honest from experience, when looking into paying back any debt owed they will not be taking into consideration that your wife is not working, that you have a young child (other than giving the standard reduction in assessment), or that you are supporting a child through uni (at all)
I back up what others say that you should ask for a sar to make sure that any changes you have notified them of have been acted upon correctly and to have any reductions (such as having a 3 yr old) that may have been missed (rightly or wrongly) applied asap to minimise the impact on any debt you may have going forward. I'm not sure how the current change of circumstances are being applied but if it is a case of from when they are notified the quicker they are told the quicker your assessment will reduce.
With regards to Sambella's comment, unfortunately whether the Deduction Order was issued rightly or wrongly you were notified of the correct assessment amount and the standard response would be that if you saw this was not being taken then it is your responsibility to make sure it is paid.
You make sense I've spoke to the wife..I can't get any proof of the debt it was with my ex at our then house, I moved out argued over the debt with company, baliffs eventually came out to my mums (June 2007) they couldn't take anything but I offered them a break down of income and an offer of £20 a month to start with. they said they would take it back but it's upto the court.
Moved in not long after with wife 2007 fell out with my mum about then and not spoke for 10 years infact she's moved 4 times since then December £20 started coming off my wage about the same time CSA wrote to me to say £30 a week was coming out.
long story short I agree it sounds like a load of crap I should have chased it up right away and I didn't. I do have proof of the debt but nothing anything was agreed on if there was anything it lies with my mum and well I'll never see that. but I don't think there was now anyway as my work didn't have a clue about any debt paid back.
So rather than complicate things with CSA I will just tell them I thought a debt was being paid back turns it wasn it was CSA I never followed it up and here we are.
I will do a SAR as advised.
I moved in with wife 2007 CSA payments start out of wage, (2013) daughter was born other than CSA writing to me in 2007 to say it was coming out of my wage. that was the last communication I had with them.
Should I have let them know I had stepkids and another daughter in another relationship?
Another thing I've looked around the net at other CSA problems. Should I have been getting yearly statements from them? the only other contact I had with them was in 2013 when we moved house and I notified them of a change of address. Again I never heard anything more from them until this year when they wrote to me saying CMS was taking over.
I know that doesn't matter vs the arrears but I think it should to some extent. even when my wage has gone up over the years the £20 has stayed the same, So I am confused until I get the SAR break down why this has never changed.
Thank you for the advise though.0 -
Ok, if I understand correctly the £20 is debt which they took bailiff action to recover. All that means is that the period of debt which the bailiffs were tasked with collecting is being paid. This would not have been revisited for as long as you maintained your agreed payments, especially if the bailiffs ascertained you had no goods to seize.
In the background the regular ongoing payments are not being collected and accruing.
You should have told them when you moved in with your wife as your ongoing assessment would have been reduced due to your stepson living with you for as long as child benefit was being paid for him. It would have then increased again when child benefit stopped only to decrease again when your 3 yr old arrived.
With regards to the yearly statements, I know that officially you should get them along with yearly payment schedules, however, many people don't.
You are more than welcome and I hope that you are able to get this sorted quickly0 -
Rejast does make a good point about my previous comment.
You have to keep on top of them as much as they keep on top of you.0 -
Once they issue a new DEO they (the CSA) are supposed to double check that the employer has enacted it and the payments have started to flow in in a timely manner at the correct rate. I suispect that there has been another change in caseworker, probably because of the huge turnover of staff and the case got lost at that point.0
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Once they issue a new DEO they (the CSA) are supposed to double check that the employer has enacted it and the payments have started to flow in in a timely manner at the correct rate. I suispect that there has been another change in caseworker, probably because of the huge turnover of staff and the case got lost at that point.
It's my own fault to be honest I should have double checked.
I've been thinking for days now how it got mixed up and I remember the conversation I had with the wages dept back then. I noticed the £20 had come off my wage and I had the CSA letter turn up about a week later to say it was coming out of my wage.
I called them up and asked about the £20 debt and then asked them about the CSA and they said "yeah it's gone through and it's coming off"
Hence the reason I took it that it was already coming off my wage before I got paid and the £20 was debt.
Skipping 10 years later I now know what has happened. Seems there was some confusion on the phone over what was debt and what was CSA.
I phoned the courts last week as well to see if they could trace what happened to the incomings and outgoing forms I gave to the bailiff and 3 of my wage slips. But they said they don't have any record and they don't understand why the bailiff said what he did as they wouldn't have dealt with it like that.
The difference at the time when I spoke to a member of staff about his wage higher than mine was he wasn't paying a pension or Union fees. which rounded it up to about what I would have been paying CSA which is why I assumed it was coming off my wage before I got paid.
I've never actually sat down and worked my wage out and just gone all these years assuming I was paying it.
Stupid is as stupid does. I'm not even sure why CSA have never contacted me in 10 years even after telling them I changed address didn't prompt them to check my account.
I've not had any contact at all from them. other than the £30 a week DEO letter from them. then to inform me CMS was taking over in September.
I had a bad split with my ex 3 years fighting in the courts for contact to my daughter and I lost contact in the end. but I felt I couldnt move on even after splitting it felt like my ex was still in my life. when CSA said it was taking it out of my wage it felt like a relief that I could move on.
So I forgot about it and carried on. but you are right I should have kept my eye on the ball.
While I am not trying to get out of paying, surley someone needs to be held to account on their end for this? wrong payment amount and no follow-ups in 10 years. I'm not sure why my ex hasn't chased it up either.
Once I know more I'll post back. thanks0 -
Guys just to bump this thread back up.
I'm all sorted with payments to CMS and CSA have just about closed the case. As suspected they have written to me with arrears letter which they have given me 14 days to respond to before handing it over to the CMS
Total arrears are = £11,905
There is no way can I pay that back at 40% of my wage as my wife isn't working at the moment so there is just my wage and I have a small child to support in this relationship I am in now. CMS currently take £170 a month.
What do I need to do in order to challenge this with the CSA? firstly I need them to investigate it why it has been left so long since the letter they sent me I need to find out who made the error on the wrong payments at the start 10 years ago and why it's never been chased up by anyone.
Do I need to so a SAR with them and at this stage do I need to inform my local MP and get CAB advice?
Also why I've never heard from CSA in 10 years until now. They clearly have my address and telephone number.
How flexable are CMS with arrears payments ontop of current payments? I was thinking of offering £50 ontop of the £170 until my wife can at least get into work next year I'm just wondering how compassionate they are as I can give them and income and out goings form?
I'm currently in debt of 20k paying it back at £269 a month to 7 debtors I might or probably will have to stop paying all them in order to pay CSA arrears.0 -
having read this thread through a couple of times i am still not sure i have got the complete gist of this.
i assume you are paying your debts through Stepchange. if this is the case then the CSA/CMS debt should be advised to them and they will reassess/reproportion your payments. you should not stop paying them. they will then ask you to do a new budget. the CSA debt is a priority debt and Stepchange will advise all your current creditors of any revised payments taking into account this new debt.
re the £20 paid through a court order. you mentioned bailiffs. is this money for old CSA arrears where the CSA instructed bailiffs to collect the debt and that is what you have been paying?
if that is the case then your case would be currently sitting with the Enforcement team. it is their practice, rightly or wrongly, not to chase any further arrears while there are bailiff payments in collection so although they may have assessed that you should have been paying £30pw by DEO they would not automatically chase these payments. the thought behind this is that the bailiffs have already done an income check on you and you are paying all you can afford so it is a waste of time and energy trying to collect more money when, in theory, you are paying the maximum you can afford.
your case would have just been sat in a suspense file until the bailiffs had collected all they were due and not looked at on a regular basis, which is why you would not get all the normal renewal notices.
you need to establish from the CSA the exact amount of arrears you owe and request an account breakdown.
you also need to tell them that your affairs are being managed by Stepchange.
they will not backdate ant changes around the make up of your family to a previous date, unless you can show that you informed them at the time, but you should inform them of the make up of your current family to get the discount for your 3 year old.
if you talk to them and show that you are trying to resolve your issues they will normally be very helpful-but like everyone in life if you shout and swear then their helpfulness decreases very quickly.
if i have not got your info correct then can you please clarify, particularly around this old debt, and then we can maybe offer further advice to help you going forward.0 -
@jimd-f
I think there is some confusion. Let me try and clear it up a bit better.
I got into some debt when I split from EX credit card/overdraft. This amounted to possibly £4000/£5000
Further down the line after negotiations broke down with the bank to get this paid back they sent a bailiff. Because I was living with my mum at the time they couldn't take anything. I offered to give the bailiff a break down of my earnings, Wage slip and company I worked for and said I would be ok with an initial £20 a month to come out of my wage or via DD and once things got better would be happy for them to review it. He did say he could take all this back but it's something they wouldn't always do like this.
Skipping past all that stopped talking with my mother not long after moved in with partner and then noticed some months later £20 start coming off may wage down as court order. I assumed it was the debt and never followed it through at this point.
About the same time I got a letter after some dispute with CSA to say £30 a week was to come off my wage (all this was at the same time the £20 was coming out)
I took it that CSA's money was coming out before I got taxed I never even thought about it showing on my wage and carried on with life paying CSA at what I thought was £30 a week.
Skipping 10 years later to April 2017 I get a letter from CSA to say I was moving over to CMS and all payments to CSA would stop in September 2017.
I called my wages department a few weeks later to enquire about how the DEO worked with CMS once they take over but they couldn't help me. I then asked them about the £20 a month if they knew if I was any closer to paying the debt off and it was at this point I found out the £20 a month was actually CSA payments they had been making. (The debt didn't exist to my work) so god knows what happened to it.
I left it at that point paying the £20 as didn't know what to do.
Stupidity on my part I should of checked my earnings after tax and insurance came out against CSA payments I would have noticed the difference was too small but I never did so this really is part my own fault.
I posted on here for advice on how to approach this it was suggested a SAR be done before CSA transfer it all to CMS. I decided to wait for CMS to sort out new case and payment plan in September which has now happened at £170 a month and they have my childs details from the relationship I am in now and adjusted payments accordingly.
CSA have since written to me to say they have now check their records and I owe £11,500 I know where this has come but at this moment in time they don't know that I know.
(my wife lost her job last year, we got into some debt because of this, plus a lack of being able to balance money on my part) debt totals 20k paying back through stepchange at £269 a month to 6 creditors.
I've just about managed to balance the books so I can pay the £170 CSA but where the hell do I get the money from for £11,500.
So I don't know where to go from here, I'm going to do a SAR request because I want to know what the hell has happened that nobody inc (CSA, Work or EX) has picked up on this and said hold on a min we are only getting £20 a month here when we should be getting about £30 a week and it's gone unchecked for 10 years.
Do I do the SAR and contact my MP and CAB at the same time? I was thinking of offereing the £269 I was paying on the debts as payment to clear the arrears off and trying to offer min payment on my debts.
I don't know how flexible CSA/CMS are but if they take 40% of my wage or drop me down to £519 I will just about manage to pay the rent and council tax that is all no food or clothes or gas and electric there is literally no money other than mine coming in to support 3 of us.
I'm hoping for some advice or who I can talk to that has been through something like this before. I'm not sure what to even argue with CSA can they extend beyond the 2 years they say they want the arrears back?
Thanks
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ok. it looks like there may be some misunderstanding at your employer if they are making payments of £20 under a court order and sending this to CSA. payments to CSA should not show on your payslip as a court order because this is not what it is(unless they have actually taken you to court for non payment; and you would have been required to attend that hearing)
it should show as a DEO to CSA. you need to get confirmation from your employer where this £20 is going
you need to get an account breakdown from CSA to establish what exactly you have been paying them over the last few years.
you should go through with the SAR request, you need to write in requesting this. they have 40 days to reply but you should not put off taking action re acc breakdown.
going to your MP will not help at this stage, and may even delay getting this resolved as the specialist team that look after MP complaints have an even tighter guideline to reply, and you do not really have a specific complaint to get them to investigate, yet!
CSA law is very complex and not all CAB offices, or even local solicitors, understand all aspects of this and they have been known to give misleading advice to the detriment of clients.
i am not saying all the advice you will get on here will be perfect but there are members on here who do have some very specialised knowledge of how CSA/CMS work
my advice,
phone Stepchange and update them with your revised debt figures re CSA debt. they will work out revised payments for you which should leave you money to live on.they will also be able to offer some advice on how you move forward
call CSA and get the account breakdown
get SAR request in -there could well be some correspondence sent to your mothers address that you have not seen that could have effected your case
while the CSA/CMS can take 40% of your pay this is unusual nowadays as they are trying to collect regular sustainable payments and the 40% rate is usually only for people with a history of non compliance- eg those that leave their jobs as soon as CSA catch up with them, or deliberately don't reply to letters/calls - or those who swear at or threaten staff.0
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