Working households - Living costs and lifestyles - what is essential?

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  • RR4353
    RR4353 Posts: 17 Forumite
    Sapphire wrote: »
    I never earned a high salary, working in publishing. I think managing my money well and not incurring debt was instilled in me by my mother, who always drummed it into me that I had to save. Also, seeing how elders in my family lost everything material (and family members) during the war made me realise how easy it was to lose everything, and how difficult it was to 'climb back up again', hence my sense of insecurity about incurring debt. (For years, the elders and their children lived in what would certainly be classified as poverty today, though not unhappily.) The worrying thing is that many people in this society are living as though there's no tomorrow, and when a crash of some kind comes (as it inevitably will, judging by past history), they will be left very vulnerable, which could have repercussions on the whole of society. Perhaps both the education system and parents should be teaching children to live more frugally, and why, though such advice would obviously be too late for those in the full throes of the consumer 'culture' (who will beget offspring that will presumably follow their lead).

    In general, I've never been into the 'consumer culture', involving people buying generic 'must-have' products, which they have been persuaded by advertising that they have to have (to 'keep up' with others, mainly). You only need to look at the ads for things like kitchens, say, and to see how generic everything is (they all look much the same, with little character). Also, I prefer quite unusual, older, lived in things, since they were often made much better than they are now, look far better (to me) and last longer. Obviously, some things, such as cookers and fridges, need to be up to date to function in the best way possible, but in the case of, say, sofas, older, hand-made ones are often better designed than new ones and can be re-covered if necessary. My sofa is from the 1920s, and had already belonged to at least two people before it reached me. I've just had it re-covered twice because the cat got to the first two covers. My dining table is Georgian (a simple oak country thing, not one of the upper-level ones), and the chairs are from a similar period and were hand-made by 'bodgers' in woods. I much prefer such well-made items created by hand, with history attached to them, than the modern junk (some of it far more expensive than the things I prefer), and also am aware of the harm human mass consumption is doing to the natural environment.

    Another thing I was thinking about earlier, sparked by your project: it is interesting that words such as 'debt' and 'loans' are now often replaced by the positive-sounding 'credit', the subtle suggestion being that having debts was to one's credit and somehow admirable. Presumably coming up with such a connotation was a deliberate tactic by the money-lenders. Also, the word 'usury' is now rarely used and is somewhat archaic, whereas usurers used to be despised. Moreover, being in debt was until recently considered to be a matter of shame. All food for thought.

    Thanks again Sapphire, this is very insightful.
  • RR4353
    RR4353 Posts: 17 Forumite
    Uxb wrote: »
    Another item not yet covered

    Living in a very rural area so no services.
    If access to functional transport is essential then it is equally essential you have two cars:- in effect one is a backup
    I do.
    Depending on cirucmstances one of those might be a 4WD vehicle, because one thing is for certain your local roads will not be gritted.

    Thank you - yes geographical issues are certainly an issue, if you (or anyone else with similar issues) would like to add to this that would be appreciated - in particular highlighting any additional living costs incurred by living in rural/remote areas but balanced with any gains/positives and reasons for choosing to live away 'hustle and bustle' :-)
  • RR4353
    RR4353 Posts: 17 Forumite
    I actually earn money online so that more than covers the cost if you want to look at it that way, my online income is around £400 a month on top of my salary, broadband and phone contracts etc are under £100 so I am in profit here.

    Thanks scaredofdebt - This is, as you say, an alternative perspective of how the internet can be a source of income for many - any additional information on how you have found this experience would be appreciated (or from anyone else in a similar situation)

    I would also like to ask just to clarify - is your online income as extra to your salary a choice or through a need to top-up your salary?

    Thanks again
  • RR4353
    RR4353 Posts: 17 Forumite
    Thanks for all the discussion so far, it's all very insightful

    A few more questions to go - here is QUESTION 4 (but still feel feel to answer previous questions too if you haven't already)

    QUESTION 4
    How important is it for you (or your family/friends) to have a better standard of living than the generation before?
    (this could also open up the debate of 'what is a better standard of living?' if people would like to discuss this)
  • Sapphire
    Sapphire Posts: 4,269
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Debt-free and Proud!
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    RR4353 wrote: »
    Thanks for all the discussion so far, it's all very insightful

    A few more questions to go - here is QUESTION 4 (but still feel feel to answer previous questions too if you haven't already)

    QUESTION 4
    How important is it for you (or your family/friends) to have a better standard of living than the generation before?
    (this could also open up the debate of 'what is a better standard of living?' if people would like to discuss this)

    Well, given my answer to your previous question, it should be quite obvious that I felt it important to improve my standard of living compared to parents and grandparents, who lost everything material and actually lived in poverty (and later just 'modestly').

    I think I bettered my standard of living almost by accident. I never set out to be very affluent (just wanted to be comfortable and not to have to worry about money). It was always most important to me to do work that is interesting and fulfilling (which enriches my life more than material wealth could), rather than to earn big bucks. My siblings operated similarly, and we've each achieved a similar living standard, though by very different means. I suppose we are high achievers, because we did exactly what we wanted to do and each excel in our chosen professions (though not in terms of achieving vast material wealth, which was never our ambition).
  • Uxb
    Uxb Posts: 1,340 Forumite
    RR4353 wrote: »
    Thank you - yes geographical issues are certainly an issue, if you (or anyone else with similar issues) would like to add to this that would be appreciated - in particular highlighting any additional living costs incurred by living in rural/remote areas but balanced with any gains/positives and reasons for choosing to live away 'hustle and bustle' :-)

    One could go one for ever about the pros and cons of rural living: some love it some hate it
    I for one am quite happy at any adverse items to be in the countryside and would hate to be in any urban area - and did when I had to be.
    In terms of those advserse items I'd say the main one is no mains gas. So its either oil or propane for heating as an alternative to an all electric house which are both much more expensive than gas both from a supply basis and for the H&S and environmental rules on storage tanks. Theft from oil tanks is also an issue.
    Mobile phone coverage is a joke and it annoys me the so many city centric posters on the web ask why anyone has landlines anymore. I have a mostly operational 2G voice service though sometime it is only OK for texts but the 3G "service" is basically non functional.
    The landline plus its answerphone is essential
    I do get lots of power cuts and am rigged up to live with them with parafin lamps etc - trees come down across the lines in storms etc. Owning a chainsaw in a rural area is another essential.
    I'm pretty well self sufficient in terms of wood for wood burning stove along with a large seasoning/drying store.

    The other obvious issue is living away from "things" means when you want to go out is a car journey and the round trip is going to be in the hour plus region...Go out for an evening meal - that will be a 50 mile round trip sort of thing.
  • RR4353
    RR4353 Posts: 17 Forumite
    Thanks again for the discussion

    QUESTION 5
    How important is being, or becoming, a homeowner?...and why?
  • Owain_Moneysaver
    Owain_Moneysaver Posts: 11,357
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    RR4353 wrote: »
    QUESTION 4
    How important is it for you (or your family/friends) to have a better standard of living than the generation before?

    I think I'm resigned to having a lower standard of living than my parents, who although they weren't in well-paid jobs probably never knew a day's unemployment, in secure unionised public sector, could afford to buy a comfortable house in a nice area (now worth about half a mill - except they sold it and moved :(:(:( ) and retired with a comfortable pension (state and employers) and enough savings to pay for a care home if they'd wanted it.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • Owain_Moneysaver
    Owain_Moneysaver Posts: 11,357
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    RR4353 wrote: »
    QUESTION 5
    How important is being, or becoming, a homeowner?...and why?

    It's a lot less important if you are in decent secure-tenancy rented housing. No maintenance bills, and the rent will be paid by benefit if you can't work.

    Private renting is currently unsustainable but is the only option for many. It's expensive and tenancies are insecure.

    If you want to have a choice of where you live then you have to be a homeowner. Owing an appreciating asset is secondary, but not insignificant.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • Sapphire
    Sapphire Posts: 4,269
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Debt-free and Proud!
    Forumite
    RR4353 wrote: »
    Thanks again for the discussion

    QUESTION 5
    How important is being, or becoming, a homeowner?...and why?

    Pretty important for me, since it has given me security. Took a long time and a lot of hard work to pay off my mortgage. I was never a high earner, and didn't buy an expensive, big property to get on any 'ladder', or to speculate on property. I bought a property purely to achieve a sense of security and a roof over my head. (I always knew that I wouldn't inherit anything and had to take care of my own security, without relying on others.)

    Any improvements I carried out were done for practical reasons (not for 'resale' purposes), so that I could have a study, for example, for work. I updated a very worn bathroom, which had a cabinet I kept hitting my head on and in which the space to move was not sufficient (the fittings were changed to smaller ones, and rearranged, to solve that issue). I waited for several years until I had saved enough money to do the work outright, without borrowing any money.
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