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  • FIRST POST
    • Mudslinger
    • By Mudslinger 5th Jan 18, 6:39 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Mudslinger
    PILON and holidays
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 6:39 PM
    PILON and holidays 5th Jan 18 at 6:39 PM
    Hi Everyone, I found this site whilst looking for advice on holidays and PILON and would like some advice.

    I will start from the beginning.
    I had been working at my previous employer since August 2017. My contract stated that I needed to give 4 weeks notice if I wanted to leave or the employer had to give me one weeks notice until the end of my probationary period.
    I handed my notice (4 weeks) in at my former employer on 14th December. On the 15th December I was given 1 weeks notice by my ex-employer, and basically told to leave straight away and that I would be paid for the following week
    I have been paid for the weeks notice, but for that week I already had booked 3.5 days annual leave. I haven't been paid this annual leave in addition to my PILON payment.

    Can they do this? I have effectively had only 1.5 days paid notice and not been paid for holidays accrued.

    Many Thanks
    M
Page 1
    • General Grant
    • By General Grant 5th Jan 18, 7:57 PM
    • 720 Posts
    • 832 Thanks
    General Grant
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 18, 7:57 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 18, 7:57 PM
    Hi Everyone, I found this site whilst looking for advice on holidays and PILON and would like some advice.

    I will start from the beginning.
    I had been working at my previous employer since August 2017. My contract stated that I needed to give 4 weeks notice if I wanted to leave or the employer had to give me one weeks notice until the end of my probationary period.
    I handed my notice (4 weeks) in at my former employer on 14th December. On the 15th December I was given 1 weeks notice by my ex-employer, and basically told to leave straight away and that I would be paid for the following week
    I have been paid for the weeks notice, but for that week I already had booked 3.5 days annual leave. I haven't been paid this annual leave in addition to my PILON payment.

    Can they do this? I have effectively had only 1.5 days paid notice and not been paid for holidays accrued.

    Many Thanks
    M
    Originally posted by Mudslinger
    When did the holiday year start/end?
    When exactly did you start?
    What paid time have you had off - August Bank Holiday? any other?
    • Mudslinger
    • By Mudslinger 5th Jan 18, 8:06 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mudslinger
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:06 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:06 PM
    Hi, thank you for answering my message. The Holiday year ran from the beginning of February until the end of January.

    I started on the 15th August, which gave me 11.5 days until the end of January, so my entitlement up until the 22nd of December (the end of my notice period was 8.8 days)

    I did have the August bank holiday off, and it was specified in my contract that these were in addition to the annual leave.

    The amount of holidays I took up to the date when I was escorted off of the site was 5.5 days, so I am still entitled to 3.5 days holiday which the employer has used as part of my PILON period.

    Hope that makes sense?

    Many thanks
    • tripled
    • By tripled 5th Jan 18, 8:16 PM
    • 2,453 Posts
    • 1,109 Thanks
    tripled
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:16 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:16 PM
    No, if you have pre-booked holiday you don't get both. You got the time off that you had booked. The extra 1.5 days was a bonus.

    You do however continue accumulating leave through that week, so you should make sure your total leave has been calculated correctly between the start and end dates of your employment.
    • Mudslinger
    • By Mudslinger 5th Jan 18, 8:22 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mudslinger
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:22 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:22 PM
    Thank you, that doesn't sound correct to me though.

    Effectively I have had 1.5 days paid notice when I should have been given one week.

    If you look at it the other way around and that I have been paid for a weeks notice that still leaves them owing me 3.5 days holiday.

    If I am wrong you will have to explain (sorry but tired and stressed).

    Many thanks.
    • tripled
    • By tripled 5th Jan 18, 8:40 PM
    • 2,453 Posts
    • 1,109 Thanks
    tripled
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:40 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:40 PM
    If you had gone into work that week you would only have worked 1.5 days. The other 3.5 days you had previously booked off as holiday. You still got that holiday. They told you not to turn up for the other 1.5 days. As this was within your notice period, they had to pay you for those 1.5 days.

    Had you not had holiday booked, you would have been expected to be in work all week and if they told you not to come in, they would have had to pay you for the week and the outstanding holiday on top.
    • anamenottaken
    • By anamenottaken 5th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    • 4,146 Posts
    • 3,632 Thanks
    anamenottaken
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    It wasn't actually PILON (Pay in Lieu of Notice). They gave you notice and paid you for it - the one week you were not required to work.
    • Mudslinger
    • By Mudslinger 5th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mudslinger
    • #8
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    Thank you Tripled.

    I had no option of working the 1.5 days or the holiday as I was escorted from the premises on the friday beforehand and told not to come back

    I cannot see how it could work any other way, I get one weeks paid notice plus any untalen holiday. I cannot see why my holiday should form part of my required notice.

    I wish I had waited until the end of the month (payday) and resigned. I would have been 500 better off for the sake of 1.5 days work.
    • tripled
    • By tripled 5th Jan 18, 9:08 PM
    • 2,453 Posts
    • 1,109 Thanks
    tripled
    • #9
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:08 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Jan 18, 9:08 PM
    They could have made you work those 1.5 days had they wanted to. They couldn't make you work the 3.5 days as it was pre-booked holiday. The fact that they didn't make/let you come into work is neither here nor there.

    Yes, had this happened a week later then you would have only worked 1.5 days and then the following week you might have had a paid week off. However they equally might have decided that for a full week it was worth making you come in.
    Last edited by tripled; 05-01-2018 at 9:10 PM.
    • daisy23169
    • By daisy23169 5th Jan 18, 9:50 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    daisy23169
    What date did your employment actually officially end? The date will be on your P45 if your employer didn't confirm it in writing elsewhere.

    If it ended on 22nd Dec then previous posters are correct, the week 18-22 Dec was your paid notice period - you were on leave for 3.5 days of it and your employer did not require you to work the additional 1.5 days.

    If your employment ended immediately on 15th Dec, then I think you would be correct and your employer should pay you 1 week PILON plus any outstanding holiday as at your leaving date, so 3.5 days.

    So it depends whether you were dismissed with immediate effect on 15th Dec or whether you were given a week's notice on 15th Dec and not required to attend on the days you would otherwise have been due in work that week. (Unfortunately it sounds like it's the latter).
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Jan 18, 8:52 AM
    • 32,174 Posts
    • 19,329 Thanks
    getmore4less
    If there was holiday booked during a period covered by a PILON payment they can count the holiday as being used.
    PILON puts you in same financial position as if you had worked.


    Accrual of holidays stop at termination date even with a PILON payment.

    The later normally applies because it is always(nearly) possible for an employer to have had you take the holiday.

    Where PILON already includes holiday pay there may be additional holiday accrued if the notice period for taking holiday can not be met.

    There may also contractual clauses that can use holiday during notice or in PILON payments.
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 12th Jan 18, 6:24 PM
    • 17,206 Posts
    • 38,152 Thanks
    Masomnia
    If they give you a week's PILON they are entitled to assume that had you remained employed for the week they would have asked you to take the 3.5 days off.

    So you aren't entitled to 3.5 days paid leave on top of the weeks notice.

    Sorry!
    I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. - P.G. Wodehouse
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 15th Jan 18, 8:50 PM
    • 37,303 Posts
    • 157,150 Thanks
    silvercar
    In retrospect I think what you are trying to do is retract your holiday leave booking at the exact minute they gave you the week's notice and escorted you out of the building. So all that week would be a working week that the employer decided you don't have to work and you would still have that 3.5 days leave.

    I think you will be hard pushed to now argue that given you weren't required to work the last week the leave should be given back to you.
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