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  • FIRST POST
    • westiedog
    • By westiedog 9th Dec 19, 9:01 PM
    • 194Posts
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    westiedog
    Experian
    • #1
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:01 PM
    Experian 9th Dec 19 at 9:01 PM
    My credit score has gone from 963 to 505 in one month for no apparent reason...
Page 1
    • yksi
    • By yksi 9th Dec 19, 9:21 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 333 Thanks
    yksi
    • #2
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:21 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:21 PM
    While someone will pipe up that the score is meaningless, this is a red flag to get hold of your statutory report and find out what tanked it (did you apply for credit anywhere? miss any payments?).
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 9th Dec 19, 9:24 PM
    • 4,763 Posts
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    Ben8282
    • #3
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:24 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:24 PM
    Agreed. Check the credit files and try to establish why.
    • westiedog
    • By westiedog 9th Dec 19, 9:33 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    westiedog
    • #4
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:33 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:33 PM
    Got a loan through my bank which was approved approx 4 weeks ago. Never missed any payments and have no other debt.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 9th Dec 19, 9:37 PM
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    Ben8282
    • #5
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:37 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Dec 19, 9:37 PM
    Are you sure there is nothing else?
    If you have no other debt please clarify what the payments that you have not missed are for.
    If you are sure that your credit files contain no adverse information then just have a good laugh about it. No lender will ever see the score so it doesn't really matter.
    Last edited by Ben8282; 09-12-2019 at 9:43 PM.
    • Lover of Lycra
    • By Lover of Lycra 9th Dec 19, 11:09 PM
    • 833 Posts
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    Lover of Lycra
    • #6
    • 9th Dec 19, 11:09 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Dec 19, 11:09 PM
    My credit score tanked when I paid off and closed two credit card accounts that had reached the end of the 0% BT period. Apparently the CRA thinks I am a bigger risk to lenders by paying off debt but as no lender uses the credit score I give zero f***s about it.
    • Ebe Scrooge
    • By Ebe Scrooge 10th Dec 19, 8:19 AM
    • 4,512 Posts
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    Ebe Scrooge
    • #7
    • 10th Dec 19, 8:19 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Dec 19, 8:19 AM
    Got a loan through my bank which was approved approx 4 weeks ago. Never missed any payments and have no other debt.
    Originally posted by westiedog
    That's more than likely the cause then. As has been said time and again on here, your score is meaningless. It will go down in response to ANY change in your credit circumstances, good or bad. Open a new account, open a new card, take out a loan - it'll go down. It'll also go down if you win the lottery and pay off your mortgage and every debt you've got.

    Most lenders tend to report to the Credit Reference Agencies monthly. So if you say you took out a new loan 4 weeks ago, it's highly likely that the lender has only reported it to the CRA in the last week or so - new line of credit, so they drop your score.

    As others have said, it's worth checking your files (for free, don't ever pay to check them), just to make sure all the information contained therein is factually correct. But aside from that, treat your score with the contempt it deserves.
    I may not know much about art, but I know what I like.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 10th Dec 19, 4:54 PM
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    Ben8282
    • #8
    • 10th Dec 19, 4:54 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Dec 19, 4:54 PM
    That's more than likely the cause then. As has been said time and again on here, your score is meaningless. It will go down in response to ANY change in your credit circumstances, good or bad. Open a new account, open a new card, take out a loan - it'll go down. It'll also go down if you win the lottery and pay off your mortgage and every debt you've got.

    .
    Originally posted by Ebe Scrooge
    Not strictly true. Only for those with bad credit and bad credit scores. My Experian 999 score has remained unchanged for years and does not drop when I obtain a new credit card and a balance appears on that account or when I, close an account etc. This is factually correct.
    Of course I don't go round switching bank accounts and obtaining new credit every month, but even Experian themselves state that a single hard search will not affect the score. So if OP has only obtained this one credit product and there is therefore only one hard search the score should not have been affected.
    Last edited by Ben8282; 10-12-2019 at 4:57 PM.
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 10th Dec 19, 5:41 PM
    • 3,016 Posts
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    boo_star
    • #9
    • 10th Dec 19, 5:41 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Dec 19, 5:41 PM
    Not strictly true. Only for those with bad credit and bad credit scores. My Experian 999 score has remained unchanged for years and does not drop when I obtain a new credit card and a balance appears on that account or when I, close an account etc. This is factually correct.
    Of course I don't go round switching bank accounts and obtaining new credit every month, but even Experian themselves state that a single hard search will not affect the score. So if OP has only obtained this one credit product and there is therefore only one hard search the score should not have been affected.
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    I usually have a 999 score too but I don't think I've ever not had a temporary dip in score if basically anything changes on my file (account being closed, hard search, account being opened.)

    Perhaps more evidence (if it was needed) that these scores are meaningless, there's no consistency in how peoples scores are calculated.
    • Willing2Learn
    • By Willing2Learn 10th Dec 19, 5:50 PM
    • 5,199 Posts
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    Willing2Learn
    I do not think a CRA score is totally meaningless as any fluctuations up or down mean I have to double-check my credit file for data accuracy. In other words, the score itself is meaningless, although any significant changes in score means something has changed in the recorded data and needs to be checked.
    I work within the voluntary sector, supporting vulnerable people to rebuild their lives.

    I love my job

    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 10th Dec 19, 6:27 PM
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    Ben8282
    In the context of the OP, it is difficult to understand how the simple act of taking out a single loan with one hard search could, in itself, have resulted in the drop from 963 to 505, meaningless score or not, which makes me wonder if we have been fully and correctly informed about the situation.

    One problem is that we only ever get to see our own (and perhaps those of close family members) credit scores and files. If I could be provided with the scores and files of say 1000 people and compare them, I might be able to form a better opinion of how the scores compare to the information contained in the files and how the scores are calculated. But that is not going to happen.

    Obviouslt the score cannot really be an indication of the iikelyhood of an individual being accepted for a specific credit product or being given a specific APR on a loan etc due, if for no other reason, to the fact thet the credit files lack very important information which will be considered in the application.

    I have always believed that the score must have some meaning in the broad sense that the higher the score the lower the probability that the credit files will contain adverse information (ccj's, defaults, missed payments etc).

    I don't subscribe to any of the credit score/credit report checking services. The only reason I am familiar with my Experian score and files is because I have access through a packaged bank account and like to have a look from time to time. I view the information in printable pdf format devoid of advertising, commentary and green ticks; probably similar to the way it would be presented to a lender. Honestly, the score has never changed since I first started looking at the files about 4 or 5 years ago. I have taken cash advances on a credit card, opened new credit card accounts and closed a credit card account in that time but there has never been the slightest change. However, every account shows status 0 for every reporting period, utilisation % is low and I do have some very old accounts (which are reported even though people say they shouldn't be because of their age) and this gives me a very impressive average account age. This does not however make me believe that I would automatically get anything that I applied for or automatically be given the best APR on a loan etc.

    I wonder if the reason the score never changes is because Experian know that they have no chance whatsoever of getting any money out of me for a paid subscription and no chance of selling me any improvement products and therefore simply don't bother!

    I suppose I could arrange for several hard searches and take out lots of credit all at once and see what happens to the score but I am really not inclined to do this.

    We need to consider they type of individual that these credit scores are aimed at. The people who care about improving their scroes and subscribe to these services are, for the most part, individuals who are experiencing difficulty in obtaining credit. If you look at the advertising on television, the scores displayed on the phones are never 999! If you get a close up of the cards beinbg recommended they are the credit builder type, not high street bank cards or Amex platinum charge cards.

    Obviously if an individual is experiencing difficulty in obtaining credit then they are going to like it when they are told of they are pre-approved for this or that and will go along with the idea of taking out credit builder card X to improve their score so that they will become eligible for something better.
    Last edited by Ben8282; 10-12-2019 at 6:30 PM.
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 11th Dec 19, 5:15 AM
    • 3,016 Posts
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    boo_star
    I do agree for the most part with what you're saying but after hearing of a few bankrupts being given 999 scores and Experian's quite ridiculous explanation for it, I can't see the scores as being a reliable indicator of your creditworthiness.

    Is your, for example, 705 score a true indication of how your file should be viewed or is the algorithm borked and it's scoring you too low. Likewise with a high score, perhaps it's scoring you far too high.

    I know that any computer system can occasionally spit out erroneous results, I know when I worked in a bank that on one or two occasions it was clear that a customers internal score was just plain wrong based on the data available but not to the extent or seeming frequency that the CRAs get it wrong.

    And then there's the problem of them just not (from my personal experience) using a scoring system that is even close to how an average mainstream lender would do it.

    I just have no faith in them at all.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 11th Dec 19, 4:23 PM
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    Ben8282
    after hearing of a few bankrupts being given 999 scores
    Originally posted by boo_star
    Did you actually encounter this in the course of your employment with a bank or just by reading what has been written on this forum?
    I have not seen any proof of this beyond what somebody has claimed in a post and suspect that this has been repeated so many times to justify the 'credit scores are meaningless' school of thought that myth has become accepted reality due to being repeated and read so many times.
    Even if this is true, once acknowledged that there is an anomaly by which bankrupts can be given 999 scores, it becomes just that; a known anomaly.
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 11th Dec 19, 4:48 PM
    • 3,016 Posts
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    boo_star
    Did you actually encounter this in the course of your employment with a bank or just by reading what has been written on this forum?
    I have not seen any proof of this beyond what somebody has claimed in a post and suspect that this has been repeated so many times to justify the 'credit scores are meaningless' school of thought that myth has become accepted reality due to being repeated and read so many times.
    Even if this is true, once acknowledged that there is an anomaly by which bankrupts can be given 999 scores, it becomes just that; a known anomaly.
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    It's from the forum.

    The fact that Experian had a rep give a reason (excuse) for it leads me to believe it's true. After all, why write an explanation for it if it isn't happening?

    And they didn't say it was an anomaly, they said (paraphrasing) "The reason bankrupts get a 999 score is because their debts have been settled through the bankruptcy (and settled debts look good to lenders)"

    Nonsense of course and perhaps they cooked up an explanation to avoid having to fess up to their system being a bit broken but that was their response.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 11th Dec 19, 5:00 PM
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    Ben8282
    I agree that the response is nonsense. I wonder what 'level' of employee is/was given the task of responding to posts on the forum and if this was some sort of template response given without consulting anybody more senior.

    It also makes me curious as to how accounts would be shown post bankruptcy. You would assume that there would have been defaults and/or ccj's and/or late/missed payments but perhaps not if the individual had somehow managed to maintain accounts in good order right up to the moment of bankruptcy - in my opinion unlikely in most cases but perhaps in some cases possible?

    So assuming all accounts showing status 0 right up to the moment of bankruptcy with no adverse conduct, then what? Account fully settled and then closed. I can see that this could perhaps result in a high score, but I would also think that this scenario would be very unusual. Presumably post bankruptcy ccj's and defaults would remain for six years and the account history would remain for six years so for this to happen there would have had to have been perfect account conduct right up to the end.

    And just how are accounts shown? Are they really marked as settled/closed balance 0? No bankruptcy code?

    If the bankruptcy is not shown on credit files as a public record, what is to prevent the bankrupt individual applying for credit?
    Last edited by Ben8282; 11-12-2019 at 5:23 PM.
    • KellyWilson
    • By KellyWilson 12th Dec 19, 2:42 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    KellyWilson
    Hi, I bought a house last year (got mortgage for next 30 years), paid off all my credit cards, I have one small loan but my credit score is still poor. I have no idea what to do to increase my credit score. If my credit score is low, this suggests I'm a high-risk customer. How to speak with Experian, it has to be something wrong with their data, I'm waiting couple of months..and nothing changed. I would like to get new loan and buy new windows, any ideas?
    • zx81
    • By zx81 12th Dec 19, 3:00 PM
    • 24,826 Posts
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    zx81
    Don't worry about the score. It's a very poor indicator of your risk and no one will ever see it but you.

    Check your three files to see if there is anything wrong with the data - make sure all the accounts are correct and so on.

    Your main problem with a new loan is likely to be affordability if you already have existing debt.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 12th Dec 19, 3:18 PM
    • 4,763 Posts
    • 2,635 Thanks
    Ben8282
    Hi, I bought a house last year (got mortgage for next 30 years), paid off all my credit cards, I have one small loan but my credit score is still poor. I have no idea what to do to increase my credit score. If my credit score is low, this suggests I'm a high-risk customer. How to speak with Experian, it has to be something wrong with their data, I'm waiting couple of months..and nothing changed. I would like to get new loan and buy new windows, any ideas?
    Originally posted by KellyWilson
    You have a mortgage. You had credit cards with balances which you paid off (after obtaining the mortgage?). You have a loan. Why do you imagine there is anything wrong with your ability to obtain credit? Have you applied and been declined?
    You would be better off in terms of APR to wait until your current loan is repaid before obtaining a new one. Also, rather than getting a loan, perhaps some of the paid off credit cards have a 0% existing customer offer that you could make use of instead?
    Last edited by Ben8282; 12-12-2019 at 3:21 PM.
    • KellyWilson
    • By KellyWilson 8th Jan 20, 3:23 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    KellyWilson
    Thanks Ben8282...Unfortunately I don't have 0% offer on my credit card and I don't want to apply for new one, my credit score will decrease even more if I'll do it.
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