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  • FIRST POST
    • sirloyneofcowes
    • By sirloyneofcowes 12th Feb 19, 6:53 PM
    • 56Posts
    • 95Thanks
    sirloyneofcowes
    Smart Meters mandatory on new fixed term deals
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 19, 6:53 PM
    Smart Meters mandatory on new fixed term deals 12th Feb 19 at 6:53 PM
    Has anyone else noticed that suppliers are making Smart Meters mandatory for some of the better energy fixing deals? I've just checked Ts and Cs on a few and frequently see something along the lines of:

    By switching to this tariff you are agreeing to be contacted by xyz company and where eligible have a smart meter installed for each fuel supply.

    PS: With the utmost respect to anyone commenting please don't spam me with Bulb or Octopus referral deals.
    Known Debt at time of the Great Escape - £5,467.85
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Page 3
    • Biggus Dickus
    • By Biggus Dickus 16th Feb 19, 7:54 AM
    • 590 Posts
    • 701 Thanks
    Biggus Dickus
    With my present meters I can easily by-pass them to grow a little weed - for personal use of course; the local dealers are ripping us off.


    Smart meters make such enterprising practices easier for the authorities to detect.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Totally agree;

    ...Damn those bleediní smart-meters!!
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 16th Feb 19, 10:03 AM
    • 4,890 Posts
    • 3,368 Thanks
    Houbara
    With my present meters I can easily by-pass them to grow a little weed - for personal use of course; the local dealers are ripping us off.


    Smart meters make such enterprising practices easier for the authorities to detect.


    Edit added just in case the irony wasn't appreciated.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Yes, you re correct a smart meter would alert the suppliers but only if the supplier was taking any notice of a sudden drop off in sending half hourly readings or of any of the "error codes " received indicating removal of the two covers on the meter.
    Personally having seen how three major suppliers Eon, EDF, and Scottish Power dealt with my reports to them over the years of bypassed meters I think most of the suppliers will just sit back and do nothing when a smart meter suddenly stops working or it flags up an error code. .
    The small suppliers were always hopeless at taking action over energy theft but you would expect three of the big 6 to take action..even if it is "eventually "
    BG are the only supplier to be really interested and run a large and effective Revenue Protection Unit.
    Last edited by Houbara; 16-02-2019 at 4:41 PM.
    • Biggus Dickus
    • By Biggus Dickus 16th Feb 19, 11:20 AM
    • 590 Posts
    • 701 Thanks
    Biggus Dickus
    Yes, you re correct a smart meter would alert the suppliers but only if the supplier was taking any notice of a sudden drop off in sending half hourly readings or of any of the "error codes " received indicating removal of the two covers on the meter.
    Personally having seen how three major suppliers Eon, EDF, and Scottish Power dealt with my reports to them over the years of bypassed meters I think most of the suppliers will just sit back and do nothing.
    The small suppliers were always hopeless at taking action over energy theft but you would expect three of the big 6 to take action..even if it is "eventually "
    BG are the only supplier to be really interested and run a large and effective Revenue Protection Unit.
    Originally posted by Houbara
    Phew, what a relief!,..thatís great news,... very encouraging for all us cannabis-farming leccy thieves!
    • redux
    • By redux 16th Feb 19, 11:51 AM
    • 20,099 Posts
    • 28,213 Thanks
    redux
    Despite this house having been with the same supplier for 12 or 15 years, I've waited for it to become clear that the supplier is only fitting the later meters that support switching supplier, and that there aren't appreciable other technical problems such as the meter ceasing after 2 or 3 months to be as smart as it was meant to be.

    According to customer discussions I can read on the supplier's own website, it was still fitting smets1 meters 10 and 7 months ago, rumours of all smets2 after October (but no later confirmation).

    So the moment may (or may not) at last have arrived, but I see no reason to hurry to try to find out, as some people found customer service didn't understand the question.

    The current tariff runs until May, still cheaper than all comparisons now, so that gives me 3 months to look into this compulsory smart meter question, whether this supplier also mandates it.
    • Biggus Dickus
    • By Biggus Dickus 16th Feb 19, 12:25 PM
    • 590 Posts
    • 701 Thanks
    Biggus Dickus
    With my present meters I can easily by-pass them to grow a little weed - for personal use of course; the local dealers are ripping us off.


    Smart meters make such enterprising practices easier for the authorities to detect.


    Edit added just in case the irony wasn't appreciated.
    Originally posted by Cardew

    ď...methinks he doth protest too muchĒ

    Too late to back-track now Cardew,...the catís out of the bag,...if I were you Iíd be making my escape over the back fence before the Rozzers come knocking.
    • GazLecky
    • By GazLecky 18th Feb 19, 12:35 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    GazLecky
    My 75 year old mum was adamant she wasnít going to have one so my dad arranges it without her knowing. Itís been installed a couple of months and she thinks itís great. She can see how much electricity they have used each day and it makes her think about switching thing off.

    Personally I use it to monitor my energy use day to day and set myself daily, weekly and monthly targets. I donít compromise on being warm but it does make you think about putting a jumper on rather than turning up the thermostat.

    There is a school of thought that unauthorised access to your readings would allow someone to know when you are at home or away, but I think thatís a bit of scaremongering.

    I do wonder if in a few years whether energy will be more expensive at peak times seeing as meter readings are taken half hourly with smart meters and sent to the data collector.
    • phillw
    • By phillw 18th Feb 19, 11:31 AM
    • 3,201 Posts
    • 2,651 Thanks
    phillw
    But in my own case I genuinely donít see that I would get a benefit, and I resent the fact that by exercising my right to opt out of having one installed I am being penalised and my market choice is being restricted by certain firms forcing a 'one size fits all' solution onto everyone.
    Originally posted by Gaikokujin
    But your provider would get a benefit from you having a smart meter.

    They are exercising their right to offer you a cheaper tariff if you agree to have a smart meter installed.

    You're not being penalised, you're just turning down their offer.

    I'm undecided, smart meters will allow energy prices to be charged at different times of the day & allow repeated non payers to be cut off without sending someone to dig up the road. How you feel about that will depend on whether it benefits you or not. I've not been with one of the big 6 for a few years as they are too expensive.

    Yes, you re correct a smart meter would alert the suppliers but only if the supplier was taking any notice of a sudden drop off in sending half hourly readings or of any of the "error codes " received indicating removal of the two covers on the meter.
    Originally posted by Houbara
    Won't people just figure out how to bypass the meter only for the illicit electricity use?

    No its a serious inconvenience and loss of earnings of about 1 months salary.
    Some people work from home and use that space which must be gutted to enable fitment ie 1 month.
    Originally posted by hareng
    Who has quoted you a month to fit a smart meter?

    One thing I'm worried about is that once we're past the 2020 deadline for rollout, whether they'll stop doing it for free and still offer better tariffs to those who have one.

    It looks like from March you can expect to get a SMET2 meter.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/15/smart-meter-roll-set-severe-delays-energy-firms-told-slow-installations/

    But of course there is a shortage.
    Last edited by phillw; 18-02-2019 at 11:48 AM.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 18th Feb 19, 11:55 AM
    • 2,922 Posts
    • 2,512 Thanks
    Carrot007
    Who has quoted you a month to fit a smart meter?
    Originally posted by phillw

    I think he is saying the current meter is in a place no longer accessible that he will have to remove stuff from.


    This is already not allowed and the meter will need to be changed anyway


    Of course will suppliers not making money in the domestic market they really will not go to the effort of doing anything that costs and sending a meter change guy out occasionally and reporting blocked meter and sending the customer a letter telling them to remove it and contact them fills their obligations for now.


    Personally I hope for anyone who has a blocked meter that the tails fall out and burn the house down before they can get to it, showing why access is required at all times. (No not really, just an illustration).
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 18th Feb 19, 2:26 PM
    • 28,120 Posts
    • 13,952 Thanks
    Cardew
    I do wonder if in a few years whether energy will be more expensive at peak times seeing as meter readings are taken half hourly with smart meters and sent to the data collector.
    Originally posted by GazLecky

    A major reason for the introduction of smart meters is to allow 'time of use' tariffs.


    https://www.gocompare.com/gas-and-electricity/time-of-use-tariffs/
    • batg
    • By batg 18th Feb 19, 4:05 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 462 Thanks
    batg
    re these Smart Meters that are seemingly becoming obligatory these days reminds me of the fiasco of energy saving light bulbs that we all were told would last 10 years or something and it was almost impossible to find what I called real bulbs....that all went Pete Tong when it was realised they were full of mercury...
    • Lagamorph
    • By Lagamorph 19th Feb 19, 8:40 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Lagamorph
    My issue with Smart Meters and reason for not having one so far isn't the meters themselves, it's the fitters.

    I've seen and read far too many stories of poorly trained fitters rushing the job of fitting Smart Meters leading to gas leaks, electricity cuts and surges causing damage to electrical equipment that the suppliers then deny any liability for.

    I'd happily have a Smart Meter, but not until I can have complete confidence that it is going to be fitted correctly by someone with the proper training.
    • Missus Hyde
    • By Missus Hyde 19th Feb 19, 3:39 PM
    • 470 Posts
    • 589 Thanks
    Missus Hyde
    My issue with Smart Meters and reason for not having one so far isn't the meters themselves, it's the fitters.

    I've seen and read far too many stories of poorly trained fitters rushing the job of fitting Smart Meters leading to gas leaks, electricity cuts and surges causing damage to electrical equipment that the suppliers then deny any liability for.

    I'd happily have a Smart Meter, but not until I can have complete confidence that it is going to be fitted correctly by someone with the proper training.
    Originally posted by Lagamorph
    Absolutely!........and in fact my electrician said exactly the same thing to us, when re-wiring our extension. The last thing we need is someone mucking around with our electrics, having just had everything sorted out to our satisfaction.

    I've never liked the idea of smart meters anyway and am not intending to have one any time in the near future (as I informed my electricity supplier in no uncertain terms.) I never have estimated bills as I always read our meter every month and pay my supplier exactly what we owe......no more and no less. (Although normally a fan of direct debits I don't do them with energy companies, as I don't intend to give them carte blanche to dip into my bank account when they feel like it.)

    I'm also far too old to be intimidated by bully boy tactics from the energy firms, insisting that I must have a smart meter fitted!
    It's a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known........Sydney Carton.
    • A Nice Englishman
    • By A Nice Englishman 19th Feb 19, 4:47 PM
    • 2,210 Posts
    • 1,314 Thanks
    A Nice Englishman
    Absolutely!........and in fact my electrician said exactly the same thing to us, when re-wiring our extension. The last thing we need is someone mucking around with our electrics, having just had everything sorted out to our satisfaction.

    I've never liked the idea of smart meters anyway and am not intending to have one any time in the near future (as I informed my electricity supplier in no uncertain terms.) I never have estimated bills as I always read our meter every month and pay my supplier exactly what we owe......no more and no less. (Although normally a fan of direct debits I don't do them with energy companies, as I don't intend to give them carte blanche to dip into my bank account when they feel like it.)

    I'm also far too old to be intimidated by bully boy tactics from the energy firms, insisting that I must have a smart meter fitted!
    Originally posted by Missus Hyde
    How about a tariff based in actual usage with automated readings?
    • Missus Hyde
    • By Missus Hyde 19th Feb 19, 6:30 PM
    • 470 Posts
    • 589 Thanks
    Missus Hyde
    How about a tariff based in actual usage with automated readings?
    Originally posted by A Nice Englishman
    I was under the impression that I had already explained that I didn't want a smart meter (automated readings or not).
    It's a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known........Sydney Carton.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Had this exact experience today with Eon.

    Currently a customer of theirs on a 1 year fixed rate deal which is coming to an end next month. Using the check on their website I was able to find an equivalent tariff to sign up for costing pretty much the same as what we pay now (all other options offered were around £15-20 a month more). However when looking under the Ďfeaturesí section for this tariff it states that by signing up to it you agree to have smart meters installed.

    Looking at it further this same caveat appears on ALL the tariffs they were offering: the only exception was the standard rate (i.e. most expensive).

    Contacted them using both their online webchat and on the phone to check if what I was reading was correct and got the same answer both times: from now on in if you want to be a customer of Eon and not pay their standard rate then installation of a smart meter is mandatoryÖabsolute joke.
    Originally posted by Gaikokujin
    Hello Gaikokujin and just to confirm, as promised in my reply on the thread below, I've passed your comments through to those at E.ON responsible for these decisions.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5965134

    I'm also including comments on this thread as well other related threads on this forum and others.

    It's a joke because in the case of Eon where they state that you Ďmustí have a smart meter installed it also says that if for some reason that can't happen (i.e. 'technical' reasons) then you will still remain on that tariff. Can't see the difference between that situation and someone just doesn't want one installed? They obviously make naff all difference to both the supply of the fuel and their systems so why force them onto people who donít see the need for them?
    Originally posted by Gaikokujin
    I can confirm, customers going on to smart conditional tariffs but are unable to have these meters at this time, can stay on their chosen tariff.

    Thanks for the heads up. I did sign up for the MSE energy club thing last year but as we were still within the period where an exit fee could be charged havenít looked at it in a while. Would be interesting if Eon are offering a tariff on there without the smart meter caveat though, given what Iíve been told by more than one of their employees todayÖ
    Originally posted by Gaikokujin
    As gt94sss2says, exit fees don't apply when moving from one E.ON tariff to another. This applies outside of the renewal period too.

    Thanks for raising these points Gaikokujin and I'm sorry we can't give you what you want.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Gaikokujin
    • By Gaikokujin 20th Feb 19, 12:28 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Gaikokujin
    Hello Gaikokujin and just to confirm, as promised in my reply on the thread below, I've passed your comments through to those at E.ON responsible for these decisions.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5965134

    I'm also including comments on this thread as well other related threads on this forum and others.

    Appreciate that and will just say for the record that everyone who Iíve talked to at Eon about this (yourself included) have been nothing but professional and courteous. At the end of the day the decision to do this has been taken by someone else higher up in the business and not those like yourself who will bear the brunt of any public disapproval.

    I can confirm, customers going on to smart conditional tariffs but are unable to have these meters at this time, can stay on their chosen tariff.



    As gt94sss2says, exit fees don't apply when moving from one E.ON tariff to another. This applies outside of the renewal period too.

    Thanks for raising these points Gaikokujin and I'm sorry we can't give you what you want.

    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Appreciate that and will just say for the record that everyone who Iíve talked to at Eon about this (yourself included) have been nothing but professional and courteous. At the end of the day the decision to do this has been taken by someone else higher up in the business and not those like yourself who will bear the brunt of any public disapproval.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Appreciate that and will just say for the record that everyone who Iíve talked to at Eon about this (yourself included) have been nothing but professional and courteous. At the end of the day the decision to do this has been taken by someone else higher up in the business and not those like yourself who will bear the brunt of any public disapproval.
    Originally posted by Gaikokujin

    Many thanks for your understanding Gaikokujin. It's really appreciated. It's good to hear the advisors you've spoken to have been professional and courteous.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    How do you know it doesn't require smart meters?
    Does it specifically say that? If not, read the T&Cs first to be sure!
    Originally posted by simmotech

    Hello simmotech and I can confirm, the E.ON Fixed 2 Year MSE Collective Feb 19 tariff doesn't have the condition about smart meters as discussed in this thread.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Tariffs
    If you are on an Eon tariff already, Eon don't charge exit fees for moving to another tariff with them



    It's been confirmed by Eon on this board - see here
    Originally posted by gt94sss2

    Spot on gt94sss2. We don't apply exit fees where customers move from one of our tariffs to another even if they're outside of the renewal window.

    Many thanks for posting the link.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • isplumm
    • By isplumm 23rd Feb 19, 6:38 PM
    • 1,931 Posts
    • 834 Thanks
    isplumm
    I have ignored every phone call, every text, every letter from them. They are perpetually, almost daily, mithering me by some medium.

    Thing is, I have a a few issues with it.

    1/ I believe it makes it trickier to change suppliers as that often means ANOTHER bl00dy meter to be fitted....
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    You don't need another meter fitting - why do you think that???

    If you meter is a 1st generation one, then once you switch supplier it will revert back to a dumb terminal - but over the next 2 years, these meters will be updated to have the same functionality as the 2nd generation meters - so when you switch suppliers it will stay a smart meter.
    Thanks Mark
    Weíve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if youíre unsure why itís been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
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