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chichi1978
Posts: 36 Forumite
Hi experts,
It’s my second time renting and I came across this issue:
I am renting a house in SW11, London (with 3 other friends) and the contract says:
The Main Terms of the Tenancy:
THE INITIAL FIXED TERM:
Start Date (on and includes): 20th of September 2017
End Date (on and includes): 19th of September 2018
(xii) THE CONTRACT MAY BE TERMINATED BY THE TENANT OR THE LANDLORD PROVIDING 2 MONTHS
NOTICE IS GIVEN IN WRITING AFTER THE INITIAL FIXED TERM.
Just in case, I emailed the agency saying that on 19th September we were leaving and they said we must give a 2-month notice, and that we must stay until 19th October. I thought the 2-month notice was only for 'after', meaning if the original contract was extended... The end date for the contract is clear it says 19th september 2018, isn't that valid enought?
Is it ok what they are doing? I remember we verbally agreed it was for only one year… In the contract there is no bit saying ‘auto-roll’ or ‘rolling over one month’.
What can I do? To be honest I have another place already from 20th September on… I feel such an idiot!
It’s my second time renting and I came across this issue:
I am renting a house in SW11, London (with 3 other friends) and the contract says:
The Main Terms of the Tenancy:
THE INITIAL FIXED TERM:
Start Date (on and includes): 20th of September 2017
End Date (on and includes): 19th of September 2018
(xii) THE CONTRACT MAY BE TERMINATED BY THE TENANT OR THE LANDLORD PROVIDING 2 MONTHS
NOTICE IS GIVEN IN WRITING AFTER THE INITIAL FIXED TERM.
Just in case, I emailed the agency saying that on 19th September we were leaving and they said we must give a 2-month notice, and that we must stay until 19th October. I thought the 2-month notice was only for 'after', meaning if the original contract was extended... The end date for the contract is clear it says 19th september 2018, isn't that valid enought?
Is it ok what they are doing? I remember we verbally agreed it was for only one year… In the contract there is no bit saying ‘auto-roll’ or ‘rolling over one month’.
What can I do? To be honest I have another place already from 20th September on… I feel such an idiot!
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Comments
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From what I understand there is no legal requirement for you to give notice to leave at the end of a Fixed-Term tenancy.
You have already given them more than a month's 'notice' out of politeness.
Just ensure you give vacant possession on or before the 19th September because just one minute past this end date will require you to pay another full month's notice, and so on.
You might find this helpful:- https://housingrights.org.uk/news/requiring-ntq-end-fixed-term-tenancy-unfair-and-unenforceable0 -
chichi1978 wrote: »Hi experts,
It!!!8217;s my second time renting and I came across this issue:
I am renting a house in SW11, London (with 3 other friends) and the contract says:
The Main Terms of the Tenancy:
THE INITIAL FIXED TERM:
Start Date (on and includes): 20th of September 2017
End Date (on and includes): 19th of September 2018
(xii) THE CONTRACT MAY BE TERMINATED BY THE TENANT OR THE LANDLORD PROVIDING 2 MONTHS
NOTICE IS GIVEN IN WRITING AFTER THE INITIAL FIXED TERM.
Just in case, I emailed the agency saying that on 19th September we were leaving and they said we must give a 2-month notice, and that we must stay until 19th October. I thought the 2-month notice was only for 'after', meaning if the original contract was extended... The end date for the contract is clear it says 19th september 2018, isn't that valid enought?
Is it ok what they are doing? I remember we verbally agreed it was for only one year!!!8230; In the contract there is no bit saying !!!8216;auto-roll!!!8217; or !!!8216;rolling over one month!!!8217;.
What can I do? To be honest I have another place already from 20th September on!!!8230; I feel such an idiot!
The end date is 19th September, so as long as you vacate the property by that date, the tenancy will end without needing notice. The LL could only have a further claim (other than for damage):
- IF the contract requires notice to terminate AT the end of the fixed term, not after (check to see if there's another clause)
- IF you fail to serve notice in line with the contractual clause
- IF the LL suffers losses (eg void in rent)
- IF those losses were as a result of your failure to serve notice (ie if you had served notice they could have advertised earlier and someone would have agreed to move in earlier)
That's a lot of IFs and the clause you've quoted only applies after the fixed term, but check to see if there's any others. If you're committed to somewhere else then move out on / before 19th Sept (do you have somewhere for 19th night?). IF the current LL tries it on asking for another months rent, worst they can do is deduct it from the deposit, which you can dispute through the deposit scheme.0 -
Sorry must disagree, no clause requiring notice to end a fixed term on the last day contract can be valid.The end date is 19th September, so as long as you vacate the property by that date, the tenancy will end without needing notice. The LL could only have a further claim (other than for damage):
- IF the contract requires notice to terminate AT the end of the fixed term, not after (check to see if there's another clause)
- IF you fail to serve notice in line with the contractual clause
- IF the LL suffers losses (eg void in rent)
- IF those losses were as a result of your failure to serve notice (ie if you had served notice they could have advertised earlier and someone would have agreed to move in earlier)
That's a lot of IFs and the clause you've quoted only applies after the fixed term, but check to see if there's any others. If you're committed to somewhere else then move out on / before 19th Sept (do you have somewhere for 19th night?). IF the current LL tries it on asking for another months rent, worst they can do is deduct it from the deposit, which you can dispute through the deposit scheme.
Thereby the LL cannot seek any recompense for voids etc.0 -
Sorry must disagree, no clause requiring notice to end a fixed term on the last day contract can be valid.
Thereby the LL cannot seek any recompense for voids etc.
Do you have any substantiation for that? Generally contractually agreed terms are valid unless there is a specific reason otherwise.
Without notice, I'm saying the tenancy would still end if the property was vacated by the end of the fixed term tenancy, but breaching a clause to serve notice would allow the LL to bring a civil claim for monetary losses.0 -
Do you have any substantiation for that? Generally contractually agreed terms are valid unless there is a specific reason otherwise.
Without notice, I'm saying the tenancy would still end if the property was vacated by the end of the fixed term tenancy, but breaching a clause to serve notice would allow the LL to bring a civil claim for monetary losses.
Many terms have long been ruled to be unfair - though now defunct the office of fair trading ruled this to be unfair consistently; as far as I'm aware the courts have stuck with that.
That said; even if a court was to go against the grain. The landlord needs to have a provable loss.
The LL might have a void regardless. How would one prove (which is what the LL must do on the basis of probability) that he would not have suffered a void?0 -
Thank you very much for all your support/answers.
I am communicating through email not with the LL, but with the ‘Property manager’ of the company, called ‘LANIGAN STATES’.
This person sent me an email saying:
Your contract states – clause (xv) “ending tenancy: should either party wish to terminate the tenancy it is agreed that a minimum of 2 months advance written notice must be served on the other party and the tenancy must not expire within the first 12 months of the tenancy commencement date”.
Should I just send him this link?
https://housingrights.org.uk/news/requiring-ntq-end-fixed-term-tenancy-unfair-and-unenforceable
Or shall I go to the their offices and talk about it? I don’t know what to do.
I understand the contract says that, but I thought that applied only outside the fixed term...
The quote he says, is from this bit of the contract:
(xii) THE CONTRACT MAY BE TERMINATED BY THE TENANT OR THE LANDLORD PROVIDING 2 MONTHS
NOTICE IS GIVEN IN WRITING AFTER THE INITIAL FIXED TERM.
(xiii) IF THE TENANT submits a cheque to the Landlord or his Agents and the said cheque has to be represented
or is for any reason returned unpaid by the payee’s bank or if any standing order is withdrawn the Tenant shall pay
a charge of £25 in respect of administration costs and bank charges.
(xiv) RENT INCREASE should a contract convert to a periodic tenancy at the end of the Initial Term then the Rent
shall increase by not more than 5% of the existing annual Rent and will be in line with market conditions which will
take effect each 12 months for the duration of the tenancy.
(xv) Ending Tenancy: Should either party wish to terminate the Tenancy, it is agreed that a minimum
of 2 month's advance written notice must be served on the other party and the tenancy must not expire
within the first 12 months of the Tenancy commencement date.
(xvi) OPTION TO RENEW it is mutually agreed between the parties that if the Tenant wishes to continue the
Tenancy created on the 20th of September 2017 for a further period of one year (“the second term”) from the end
of the Term granted then the Landlord may agree to let the premises for a further period of one year from the
expiry of the initial Term (with the exception of this clause) at an increased Rent. The rent increase shall not be
more than 5% of the existing annual Rent and will be in line with market conditions.0 -
Those terms are contradictory. (xii & xv)0
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Yes, I thought the same!
I want to reply this to his email like the below, I don't want to pick up a fight with the guy, how does it look?
That clause you mention, comes after clause xii:
(xii) THE CONTRACT MAY BE TERMINATED BY THE TENANT OR THE LANDLORD PROVIDING 2 MONTHS
NOTICE IS GIVEN IN WRITING AFTER THE INITIAL FIXED TERM.
Xv refers to xii.
Furthermore, it is not that we wish to terminate the tenancy, the tenancy ends at that date.
The Main Terms of the Tenancy:
THE INITIAL FIXED TERM:
Start Date (on and includes): 20th of September 2017
End Date (on and includes): 19th of September 2018
Additionally, the tenancy will be determined by natural expiry at the end of the relevant term. There is no legal requirement to serve a notice to quit at the end of term in these circumstances. This rule has been established by the courts in the cases of Wright v Tracey (1874) IR 8 CL 478 and McGrath v Travers (1948) IR 122.
You must know that these clauses will almost certainly be void under the Unfair Contract Terms regulations (now part of the Consumer Rights Act 2015). We only signed up for a specific period of time. Any clause forcing us to stay longer or attempting to make us liable is considered ‘unfair’ and unenforceable.0 -
Sounds good to me, I don't think further discussions there after would be fruitful.chichi1978 wrote: »Yes, I thought the same!
I want to reply this to his email like the below, I don't want to pick up a fight with the guy, how does it look?
That clause you mention, comes after clause xii:
(xii) THE CONTRACT MAY BE TERMINATED BY THE TENANT OR THE LANDLORD PROVIDING 2 MONTHS
NOTICE IS GIVEN IN WRITING AFTER THE INITIAL FIXED TERM.
Xv refers to xii.
Furthermore, it is not that we wish to terminate the tenancy, the tenancy ends at that date.
The Main Terms of the Tenancy:
THE INITIAL FIXED TERM:
Start Date (on and includes): 20th of September 2017
End Date (on and includes): 19th of September 2018
Additionally, the tenancy will be determined by natural expiry at the end of the relevant term. There is no legal requirement to serve a notice to quit at the end of term in these circumstances. This rule has been established by the courts in the cases of Wright v Tracey (1874) IR 8 CL 478 and McGrath v Travers (1948) IR 122.
You must know that these clauses will almost certainly be void under the Unfair Contract Terms regulations (now part of the Consumer Rights Act 2015). We only signed up for a specific period of time. Any clause forcing us to stay longer or attempting to make us liable is considered ‘unfair’ and unenforceable.
Move out, claim back your deposit if needs be.0 -
chichi1978 wrote: »I don’t know what to do.
Write a letter to the actual Landlord (you'll find his address on your Tenancy Agreement - it will be under the 'Address for service under Section 47 & 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987), saying:-
Dear Mr Landlord,
I'm writing to inform you that I will not be staying on at the property under a Statutory Periodic Tenancy after the Fixed-Term has ended, neither would I like to enter into another Fixed-Term and I will be providing vacant possession on 19th September 2018.
Please let your Agency know that I do not need to provide them with two months notice, as they have stated.
Please confirm when you would like to perform the Check-Out etc. etc. etc.0
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