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Claim Form received - no NTK, no LBA received before

LGTH
LGTH Posts: 53
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Hello,

I have received a Claim form from County Court Business Centre in Northampton on behalf of one of the solicitor companies that is extensively discussed in the forum. I understood I have 14 days + 5 days to pay. For a while I was so petrified, that I did not do anything about it. Now that the deadline is approaching, I am considering to pay. they are asking for approx. £226 which is a considerable amount of money (£150 for parking charges + interest, £25 for court fee, £50 for legal representative's costs).

This is the first time I have found out I have an outstanding parking charge. There was no NTK and no LBA received. I am a RK but was not the driver. I also have never been to that place where the parking charge was incurred. The driver who got the fine is ignoring/rejecting the calls from me, so I cannot find out what happened there.
I would be considering to name the driver but it does not seem it is possible at this stage, ie I would have needed to do that when NTK would have been received.

If I decided to go to court , my problem is that legal terminology is hard to understand while the wording is everything in there.

I am quite scared (about how this situation would affect my credit rating) so I apologize if the above is not coherent. Could I please get some advise what would be the best option. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Comments

  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084
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    it wont affect your credit rating as long as you either pay IN FULL or if you fight it in court and lose, you pay the judgment set by the court (set by the judge) promptly and IN FULL , usually within 28 days (if a longer payment plan was required , it has to be agreed with the claimant I believe)

    so as long as its paid at the correct time , IN FULL, no CCJ will be issued and your credit rating is unaffected, its finished with , finito , fini

    if you are going to fight it , the newbies sticky thread explains how to do it, although its not easy to get your head around even if you were a native english speaker , its a lot of legal jargon in english

    so a lot to think about but this is not a criminal case, no police , no magistrates , no prison

    its a civil matter for an outstanding invoice , which if you fight you might win and pay nothing , but its more difficult to name the driver at this stage, you are correct
  • LGTH
    LGTH Posts: 53
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    Thank you for your reply.
    Should I contact the Claimant and request them to provide copy of NTK and LBA and any photographic evidence related and proof of delivery of these documents if there is one. Is it legal for them to refuse to provide this or ignore my request?

    Also, is it required to use the legal terminology in the defence? I understood that the defence should be just a skeleton before the 28 days are up. After that you give a "detailed" defence to the Court. Is that correct?
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,155
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    LGTH wrote: »
    Thank you for your reply.
    Should I contact the Claimant and request them to provide copy of NTK and LBA and any photographic evidence related and proof of delivery of these documents if there is one. Is it legal for them to refuse to provide this or ignore my request?

    Also, is it required to use the legal terminology in the defence? I understood that the defence should be just a skeleton before the 28 days are up. After that you give a "detailed" defence to the Court. Is that correct?

    It won't hurt to ask for a copy of the PCN/NTK, but they may not provide it to you until they submit their witness statement.

    You do not need to use legal jargon, especially if you don' know what it means.
    You will need to refer to court cases and Acts of Parliament that support your case. The Parking-Prankster's blogspot is a good source for the former.
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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,639
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    The Claim is dated 10 Feb and I understood I have 14 days + 5 days to pay which makes the deadline the 28 Feb. For a while I was so petrified, that I did not do anything about it. Now that the deadline is approaching, I am considering to pay.

    Why? You would likely pay less even if you lost. May as well fight it. Sounds encouraging:
    I am a RK but was not the driver. I also have never been to that place where the parking charge was incurred.

    If it's Gladstones copy & adapt a recent Gladstones defence written as keeper/not driver.

    If it's BW Legal, copy & adapt a BW Legal defence that includes no keeper liability/not the driver.

    You should be able to pretty much post a draft here within an hour, copied from another.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • LGTH
    LGTH Posts: 53
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    If I were to prove that I was not the driver, would a copy of insurance on the vehicle issued in the driver's name and a car rental agreement (I am an owner and privately rented it ) be a good proof? or would I need something else? Since I do not know if the parking charge was during the day or night, would either a letter from employer or my partner be sufficient/needed at all?
    The fact that the car has been rented, does it change this situation/complicate it perhaps?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,639
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    Depends which PPC. For example in a BW Legal (Excel or VCS) case, ''no keeper liability'' and proof you were not driving should be a winning defence point because until very recently those firms didn't use POFA version PCNs. They work on assuming the keeper was the driver, which a keeper who wasn't driving can certainly rebut.

    But Gladstones issue claims for a hotch-potch of PPCs, some of whom do comply with the POFA enough for a Judge to decide that potentially, a keeper can be held liable.

    Which PPC and which Solicitor? You will get more bespoke advice by telling us.
    The fact that the car has been rented, does it change this situation/complicate it perhaps?
    How did the PPC get your details? Surely the first PCN went to the rental firm, so what happened, did you appeal, has the driver already been identified?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • LGTH
    LGTH Posts: 53
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    edited 9 July 2017 at 10:33PM
    What I meant is it is my car - I own it and I am RK. No firm is involved, I have rented out a vehicle to a driver privately. I have received no PCN nor LBA, just a claim form from CCBC in Northampton. I know who the driver is but I presume the Claimant and PPC do not and they obtained my details from DVLA.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,639
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    OK, so PPM should have sent a Notice to Keeper ages ago and they will have to show that in evidence, later, and prove POFA compliance in the wording and deadline (and show that on the balance of probabilities it was 'served') if they are to hold a keeper liable who was not driving.

    I would email Gladstones to ask for a copy of the signs on site and the PCN and Notice to Keeper, stating clearly that you were not driving. And you require this information because it was missing previously (i.e. no PCN or LBCCC has been received and as keeper you have been shown no details whatsoever that evidence any PCN let alone a contract with the driver, who was not you).

    Meanwhile, acknowledge the claim within 14 days on MCOL and then show us your defence which has to be filed within 33 days of the claim form date (preferably not leaving it that late!!). Don't wait for Gladstones response, ask for stuff but crack on.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • LGTH
    LGTH Posts: 53
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    Thank you. I will get on with it then.
  • LGTH
    LGTH Posts: 53
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    [FONT=&quot]Could you please advise on the below defence, I do not have a lot of info about the location and signs, etc. There are so many questions I am not very clear about as well. But perhaps - one step at a time. Does this look any good? [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I am XXXXX, defendant in this matter and deny liability for the entirety of the claim for the following reasons:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. It is admitted that the Defendant was the authorised registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged contravention.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. The Claimant has no cause of action against the Defendant as the Defendant has not been a driver at the time when the parking charge has been incurred. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. The identity of the driver of the vehicle on the date in question has not been ascertained.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. The Defendant, as the keeper of the vehicle has no liability unless the Claimant has met the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold the defendant responsible for the driver’s alleged breach. This includes serving a notice to keeper that must meet the strict conditions listed in Schedule 4, Paragraph 8 of the legislation. The Claimant has never served a notice to keeper or letter before claim. If the Claimant produces such a notice with proof of postage the Defendant asks for leave to amend the defence [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5. Since the Defendant has not been a driver at the time of the alleged contravention and has never been to the location of the incident, the Defendant has no information regarding the signage and contract between the Claimant and landowner if the Claimant is an acting agent on the behalf of the landowner. The Defendant has requested the information on signage at via email on XXXX followed by a written letter on XXXX. No reply or confirmation of the receipt has been received yet. If the Claimant provides this information the Defendant asks for leave to amend the defence. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6. The Particulars of Claim is vague and incompetent as cause of action is not disclosed:[/FONT]
    a) [FONT=&quot]The Claimant has stated that a parking charge was incurred for breaching parking terms on the land at XXXX which does not adequately describe the basis on which the claim is brought. [/FONT]
    b) [FONT=&quot]It is not clearly stated whether the Claimant claims £150 for the parking charges and/or damages and indemnity costs if applicable. [/FONT]
    c) [FONT=&quot]There is no explanation in the Particulars of Claim how the sum of £150 has been calculated.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]7. The Defendant also disputes that the Claimant has incurred £50 solicitor costs as the Defendant has a reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred £50 to pursue an alleged £150 debt.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]8. The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper. The Defendant has a reasonable belief that the claimed £150 includes additional charges which then fails to comply with Protection of Freedoms Act Schedule 4 Paragraph 4. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    I believe that the facts stated in this Statement of defence dated xxxxx are true.
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