Chief rent / Rentcharge issue - UPDATED please help

anticlaus105 · 8 April 2018 at 5:56PM

I bought a property around 14 years ago with a business partner. Around a year later I bought the other half from my partner. During this 2nd purchase I also paid for !!!8220;absent landlord indemnity policy!!!8221;, but have no paperwork other than it being listed on the solicitor invoice. A couple of years later my ex business partner forwarded me some demands for chief rent for ~£5pa. I investigated it and found it was legit, so have been paying it ever since. It didn!!!8217;t occur to me if my policy could have been used at this time. I once inquired about buying it out and was offered it for £500. Given this would take me 100 years to make back I just carried on paying it yearly. I did not know about the scheme to redeem it for approx. 16x its yearly value and have only just become aware of this.

My last payment for ~£5 was until end April 2018 and is listed as Chief Rent Charge.

A few days ago I received a letter addressed to !!!8220;the long leaseholder!!!8221; from another company stating they had bought the !!!8220;freehold!!!8221; to my property and that all future rent payments !!!8220;under my lease!!!8221; are to be made to them. This letter contains an address discrepancy, asks for ~£8pa, and says it is due for period end March 2018.

I have emailed the company to enquire about the address discrepancy, the difference in charging period and amount and if they are trying to collect chief rent/rent charge? I am waiting for them to come back to me after the Easter break.

The letter also says the !!!8220;relevant lease!!!8221; states the property must be insured by an insurance company that is !!!8220;approved by the landlord!!!8221; or I need to pay the £25pa. There are several mentions of lease for various reasons throughout the letter.

I have the title plan from the land registry which has the lease as being for 40.0s.0d for 999 years in 1872 and a few properties (I think this may be where the new price comes from). There is also another paragraph - By an Assignment dated 1896 made between (1) (redacted) (2) (redacted) and (3) (redacted) and others the land in this title was informally exonerated from the rent reserved by the lease. I also have another document that is written in very old language that mentions apportionment.

I have read some horror storied of people not paying these small amounts and then getting stung by old draconian laws. In fact, it appears that in some cases buying up these rent charges is done so unwitting property owners can be scammed for disproportionate admin fees later down the line. I wish I had known about the redemption option earlier but given the letter I have received am unsure if this would have been an option.

Can anyone offer any advice/insight into what I can do going forward? I have had a look at the form to submit to redeem the rent charge but am unsure about a few elements. I!!!8217;m not sure if it applies to my case anyway. If it does would it be possible to complete myself with some online help, or am I going to need a solicitor? If so does anyone have a recommendation and likely cost? It asks for things like !!!8220;The type of deed (e.g. conveyance, registered transfer)!!!8221; and a few other things I don!!!8217;t think I have the details of. I am also concerned about the approved insurer part. This was never mentioned previously and I can see no mention of it in any paperwork I have. Can they impose/enforce this? TBH I'm also getting a bit mixed up with the various terminology.

I also understand rent charges need to be paid within 40 days of their due date, whether asked for or not, otherwise the owner can create a lease/occupy the premises?

G_M · 8 April 2018 at 8:50PM

anticlaus105 wrote: »

...... During this 2nd purchase I also paid for !!!8220;absent landlord indemnity policy!!!8221;, but have no paperwork other than it being listed on the solicitor invoice.

So what did your solicitor say when you asked?

anticlaus105 · 8 April 2018 at 9:32PM

G_M wrote: »

So what did your solicitor say when you asked?

Unfortunately the solicitor I used is no longer in business. Apart from it being listed on the invoice I have nothing else. Is there some way I can search for the policy or are solicitors files transferred somewhere when the close?

It was a company called nightingale and co based in the North West (I used the hindley branch).

G_M · 9 April 2018 at 7:17PM

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/support-services/advice/practice-notes/closing-down-your-practice/

http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/solicitor-closed-down.page

anticlaus105 · 10 April 2018 at 10:58AM

Thanks. I have now found out where the files were transferred to and am making inquiries there.

anticlaus105 · 13 April 2018 at 11:49AM

I have manged to obtain the policy documents from my bank (they were with the deeds). The first invoice for rent charge is from 2009. My policy is from 2007. The invoice was sent to my ex business partner who forwarded it onto me. I forgot about the policy and after deciding it was genuine just paid it since then, until this new correspondence the other week which made me revisit it.

Can anyone advise me what this policy covers me for and if I am still covered by it so could use it now? Would it cover having it redeemed/abolished?

On the last page it mentions letting them know without delay.

G_M · 13 April 2018 at 12:45PM

You have not given exact dates for any of the relevant transactions, however, the policy is clear:

It covers you for any demands for rent covering any period before the policy date. You took out the policy in 2007

The first invoice for rent charge is from 2009.

You do not say what period this invoice covers. If it was for a ny period before 2007, you could have claimed. If it was for the period 2007-2009 the policy would not cover you.

I have the title plan from the land registry which has the lease as being for 40.0s.0d for 999 years in 1872 and a few properties (I think this may be where the new price comes from). There is also another paragraph - By an Assignment dated 1896 made between (1) (redacted) (2) (redacted) and (3) (redacted) and others the land in this title was informally exonerated from the rent reserved by the lease. I also have another document that is written in very old language that mentions apportionment.

This needs futher clarification /investigation:

* 40s is £2.00 pa. So why the demand for £5?
* the lease expired in 1971. Was it renewed? You may own nothing.....
* What exactly does the 1896 Assignment say? i) Does it also extend the lease perhaps? What exactly does it say with regard to exonerating the rent? You may owe nothing.
* and what about this 'other document'?

anticlaus105 · 13 April 2018 at 1:43PM

Thanks for all your help so far.

I think the original invoice ran from 2006 so I guess I could have saved a few quid. I have been a bit ambiguous with amounts and details as I'm aware I'm on the internet and don't know who may be reading. I thought 40s would be 40 pounds. It cover 5 properties hence the £8 new demand. Have I got this wrong? An old document lists 4s15 (4 pounds 15 shillings?) so £4.75 which is what I've been paying. It gives payment dates as half due 1st may and half due 1st Nov, but I've just been paying the full £4.75 on 1st may each year. The new demand is for £8 from about the 25th of March.

If the insurance is useless I would like to just pay correctly and then redeem it. I have the form to apply to redeem but am stuck on a few questions. I tried calling them but on the 2 numbers it goes to voicemail.

If you are ok with I can pm you some more detailed info. I'm out atm so replying on my phone, but when im at my pc I can get more details.

Just to add lease is for 999 years not 99 so would expire 2871. Most rentcharge will be abolished in 2037 anyway, but to save any mither and this weird insurance clause I would just like it gone asap. I just wish i had learned about the redemtion option earlier.

G_M · 13 April 2018 at 1:47PM

has the lease as being for 40.0s.0d for 999 years in 1872

Sorry - my mistake. That is £40. I mis-read it.

An old document lists 4s15 (4 pounds 15 shillings?) so £4.75

Yes.

Though who knows whether this 'old document' is valid or not.

I suspect you are going to have tto take all the various leases, old documnets etc to a prperty solicitor to read through properly. Whether the costs of this lease justify paying a solicitor is debateble....

Cakeguts · 13 April 2018 at 1:52PM

G_M wrote: »

You have not given exact dates for any of the relevant transactions, however, the policy is clear:

It covers you for any demands for rent covering any period before the policy date. You took out the policy in 2007
You do not say what period this invoice covers. If it was for a ny period before 2007, you could have claimed. If it was for the period 2007-2009 the policy would not cover you.

This needs futher clarification /investigation:

* 40s is £2.00 pa. So why the demand for £5?
* the lease expired in 1971. Was it renewed? You may own nothing.....
* What exactly does the 1896 Assignment say? i) Does it also extend the lease perhaps? What exactly does it say with regard to exonerating the rent? You may owe nothing.
* and what about this 'other document'?

I think it said £40.0s.0d so that is £40 old pre decimalisation £s.

I don't think chief rent had anything to do with the lease. You could have a freehold house and still have to pay chief rent.

anticlaus105 · 13 April 2018 at 4:05PM

Here is the original title plan I downloaded a few years ago:

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

Chief rent / Rentcharge issue - UPDATED please help

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