broken stopcock... help!

lapat · 6 November 2010 at 9:42PM

Premier wrote: »

Never seen a plastic one. I would expect it to snap if it's plastic - these valves are hardly ever moved so usually need quite a bit of welly. (... which is why they may fracture which the water company will charge you for as it's their property if you are not careful). Of course, if you've employed a water company official to come out and turn it off for you, and it snaps, it's not your problem.

firstly you cant employ a water company official to carry out your work there a regulated business so they cant take payment.
and as below the aplas style meter boxes fitted from 1995 onwards have a plastic stop tap fitment(although they may not be left in at install)

Hope you've got long arms. These valves can be anything up to about 3 feet underground. It helps avoid damage should something heaby (like a vehicle) pass over them and also protects them from freezing in winter)
the new style aplas fitments are general shallo enough for oyu to allow operation via hand
and the industry standard it 2ft 6" to pass a water fitting inspection

They are also, as I said, usually covered in water, muck and other nasties (like rats urine!:eek:) Not something I would recommend sticking any part of your body into, especially your whole arm up to your armpit

In all the houses I've ever accessed one of these (and that's quite a few ranging from about 10 years old to about 80 years old), I've never come across one of these in a meter box.

Why would they put such an item in a meter box? The valve itself is usually located on the pavement under a small access cover as shown. Even if there's a water meter, it's still usually located in such a location. If a number of valves/meters are located together, then they may sometimes be located in one big access pit.

Having said that, the only house I've been to in the Severn Trent water area with a meter had that meter located under the sink (with electronic remote control reading possibility to an outside wall). That house was about 10 years old, so I don't know if that only applies to new builds in that area where meters were installed from new, or indeed if it's even usual for the ST water area.

thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

deanos · 7 November 2010 at 8:56AM

BTW the latest boxes in my area don't have keys they just work on a 1/4 turn knob in the bottom of the box, so much easier to work with and turn off

Im curious Gothicfairy can you take pics of the meter chamber you are referring to.

Gothicfairy · 8 November 2010 at 11:07PM

I can once I get a camera

The meter is a kent (mechanical) can't read the number but it is kent XXXX could be a k90 ?? The chamber itself if a small hole really but there is only the meter in there and nothing else.Top like a CD case. Old meter I would think though.

I will try and get a piccy asap

I also did not say that any illness etc did not warrent samples etc just that I don't know of any water company that come out on the first call from a customer about funny colour or tasting water and take expensive tests as a lot of times it is the internal pipe work at fault and that is something that can be checked without the need for any tests outside of the home.

uncovered · 14 November 2010 at 9:27AM

wow, just reading this and its interesting to see peoples views on situations. A little bit of info is sometimes a dangerous thing.

I will add my two penneth then regarding this stoptap situation, even though this thread is a few weeks old.

each water company use different meter boxes (external fits) so you will find that when people comment on threads like these there will be many different installations and will be hard to work out which box is fitted.

In my area I come across three boxes in the main.

A saunders box (installed roughly late 80's) This has a larger than average plastic circular lid. Once lifted up you will be greeted with a brass stoptap with the plug next to it.

Atplast box - Smaller circular lid which was made installed between late 80's up until 2006/7 ish. Atplast is short for the manufacturers name, Atlantic Plastics. Inside these boxes you will will need to remove the polystyrene frost protection and you will be greeted with either a metal or plastic removable key. Depending on when the box was manufactured will depend on what key will be fitted. These keys drop into a hexagonal socket at the bottom of the box.

Ebco box - These boxes have a rectangular flip. The stoptap in these boxes are a flat key which are just a quarter turn on and off.

The new boxes we are now fitting are circular lids with a flat plastic stoptap in the chamber which turn off and on like a normal tap. All these meter boxes, except the saunders box, are easily operated by hand and are not installed that deep.

When I have visited different parts of the country I have seen other style boxes, because we are all sad and have mini busmans holidays dont we!

As for the WD40, people have quite rightly stated that you should never use this on any water fitting, If this gets into the supply you will start to get an oily film on the water and it will take an age to get rid of that. We have a WD40 equivalent which we have had on trial which is used in the food industry which is food grade oil. That is acceptable evidentally.

Again different water companies will have different charging policies, but in my area we would not charge to turn your water off but would charge to turn it on. It is illegal to charge for turn offs apparentely, so we turn off free, but if you want it back on then its £55

You can ofcourse turn the supply off yourself, but if you break it then you could be liable for the cost of renewal which can be up to £500.

deanos · 14 November 2010 at 10:56AM

The new boxes around here are the circular Ebco boundary box with quarter turn and sliding head , they also have loads of room inside and are self draining and not sealed, a much improved box

And they were call Atplas not Atplast

some pics below in the link

http://www.tycowaterworks.com/pdf/METERBOXES/Atplas%20Boundary%20Box%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

mart.vader · 21 November 2010 at 2:07PM

lapat wrote: »

are you real do you know what wd40 or easing oil would do to contaminate the water supply if it was to ingress into the water.

I was in the water industry for 27 years and I can tell you it's absolutely impossible to contaminate the water supply in this way. The water pressure is too high - if it were not, the water would not reach your sink. In any leak, the water comes out of the leak, it doesnt flow back into it. In any area, there are hundreds of leaks on the water cos network, leaking about 40% of their water into the ground, into contaminated ground, into rivers, into sewers etc. but there is no risk of contamination.

For the OP, IF you have an outside meter it will be probably under the footpath, under a plastic or metal cover, if so, right next to the meter in the pit, there will be a valve, - it may not look like a valve, it may look like the top of a tap but with only a T head to turn it or it may be a plastic recess that takes a hexagonal key, but can actually be turned with a large screwdriver or it may have a square head.

If its a metal valve, and its stuck, you will need to gently work it back and forth to get it moving. Be careful not to break the valve or the water co will (try to) make you pay for it.

If there is no meter, just a valve, it might have a square head, a T head or even rarely a triangular head - depends which part of the country or even which part of the city you are in.

(as well as the tap under the sink, many houses have an additional valve where the supply pipe enters the house, maybe under the hall floorboards?)

If there is no valve o/s your house, i.e. if there never was one or if its knackered or buried, the water co can do a shut-down of the whole street. (ignore the postings above that imply you can do it yourself - trust me - you cant - You need a large iron key about 2 ft long and an iron bar 3ft long to turn it, and you will have to explain to your neighbours why their water has gone off)

The water Co. will want your plumber to be there ready to replace the inside stopvalve in as little time as possible.

Edit; the two posts above mine are accurate in their description of meter boxes (or pits) - you can turn your own water off, but dont try to turn the whole street off. I stand by my comments about contamination.

mpf013 · 26 November 2010 at 5:33AM

I have a meter with one of these small plastic stopcock keys. I tried to turn the water off by it but it was stuck. I didn't want to turn the key too far since it would no doubt break. The solution was to go to my socket set and get a 7/16ths socket and attach as many drive shafts to it as possible. Although the socket is slightly too large for the head of the valve, it was enough that I could get the valve to move. Slowly and carefully I worked it back and forward a few times and now my plastic key works a treat. I didn't damage the valve head.

lapat · 27 November 2010 at 9:35PM

mart.vader wrote: »

I was in the water industry for 27 years and I can tell you it's absolutely impossible to contaminate the water supply in this way.

so what did you do for 27 years and when did you leave...as wd40 was took out of use in the water industry over ten years ago. under revised drinking water regs and coshh regs

mart.vader · 29 November 2010 at 5:31PM

lapat wrote: »

so what did you do for 27 years and when did you leave...as wd40 was took out of use in the water industry over ten years ago. under revised drinking water regs and coshh regs

I've never known any plumber give a hoot about what they applied to the outside of a water-pipe, to free a stopvalve. After all, any bacteria ( or wd40 molecules) would have to swimming against the water flow, upstream, like tiny salmon, to get into the water supply.

lapat · 18 December 2010 at 8:31PM

mart.vader wrote: »

I've never known any plumber give a hoot about what they applied to the outside of a water-pipe, to free a stopvalve. After all, any bacteria ( or wd40 molecules) would have to swimming against the water flow, upstream, like tiny salmon, to get into the water supply.

thats why there is now a wiaps scheme to stop the cowboys from doing what they want.

broken stopcock... help!

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