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  • FIRST POST
    adamson909
    Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice: Help Please
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 13, 7:36 PM
    Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice: Help Please 11th Apr 13 at 7:36 PM
    I have received a "Fixed Penalty Notice" for allegedly intending to avoid a fare. Although I believe I have a very strong argument against why I in fact didn't commit the offence I would rather just pay the 80 + 3.40 it requests.

    However the letter states the offence was committed on the 26th Oct 2012 and the letter has been received and dated on the 9th April 2013. The letter states "No proceeding will be taken for the offence before the expiration of the 14 days from the date of this notice" (they have given me 14 days to pay the fine).

    I have read elsewhere whilst reading about these notices that there is a 6 month time limit in which to "lay evidence" to the courts.

    My first question is that given the end of my 14 days to pay, the date will be 23rd April... Leaving 3 days for the company (Northern Fail) to "lay evidence" to the courts. Is it safe to ignore this fine then?

    Second question: If I am going to pay the fine (I am a student so 83 is quite painful but I am capable of paying it) would it be a stupid idea to send them 80 for the fine and only 3 (instead of 3.40)for the fare as I was not travelling return and the fare prices were lower when the offence took place?
    I know 40p is nothing but I despise Northern Rail and would do anything to at least gain a little victory over them!

    Thanks in advance if anyone replies!
Page 4
  • firstclassx
    Presumably it doesn't need to be pointed out that the National Rail Conditions of Carriage are a civil (contract) matter, and the railway Byelaws are criminal legislation AND that civil legislation/contract CANNOT overrule criminal legislation.

    In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.
    by Byelaw 18(1)
    The ONLY exceptions are:

    (i) there were no facilities in working order for the issue or
    validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where,
    he began his journey; or
    (ii) there was a notice at the station where he began his journey
    permitting journeys to be started without a valid ticket; or
    (iii) an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a
    valid ticket.

    The National Rail Conditions of Carriage, (Section 1(A)(b)), also state that the above Byelaw applies.

    Tickets remain the property of the relevant Train Company. Each ticket is issued subject to:
    (a) these Conditions;
    (b) the applicable byelaws;
  • geordie_taxi
    firstclassx. 1st let me say u have put across an excellent post in a most professional manner.

    The only point I will contest is the part about 'civil legislation/contract CANNOT overrule criminal legislation' I agree with what say but contract law can be used for your defence and if used correctly by a solicitor could be enough for dismissal

    before anybody states 'strict liability offence' the only reason train companies win such cases is because their not contested. if they r contested the prosecution drop the case as they don't want to set a legal precedent

    but thank u shame others have to be so aggressive/pompous
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 21st Apr 13, 2:42 PM
    • 2,806 Posts
    • 2,441 Thanks
    giraffe69
    but thank u shame others have to be so aggressive/pompous
    let me say u have put across an excellent post in a most professional manner.
    but not patronising
    • Stigy
    • By Stigy 21st Apr 13, 7:23 PM
    • 1,532 Posts
    • 638 Thanks
    Stigy
    before anybody states 'strict liability offence' the only reason train companies win such cases is because their not contested. if they r contested the prosecution drop the case as they don't want to set a legal precedent
    Originally posted by geordie_taxi
    Really? Are you sure?

    People plead 'Not Guilty' everyday and the TOC still proceeds with the case and win in court. I've known cases be proven in the Magistrates' Court (both Byelaws and RRA 1889) only for the defendant to appeal the Magistrates' decision and thus go to Crown Court. So it's yet more drivel on your part to suggest that the TOC would 'chicken out' if cases are contested. People argue their case from the word go, before even going to court some times, but the train company still takes the matter to court.
    • Jeff Bridges hair
    • By Jeff Bridges hair 22nd Apr 13, 1:09 AM
    • 5,952 Posts
    • 7,233 Thanks
    Jeff Bridges hair
    childish jeff its only an internet forum and ive got better things 2 do with my time like help people with fare problems



    already answered those questions correctly I can provide links to were the answers r or were u agreed with me if u like

    as to ur drivel about my signature it seems to me one last roll of the dice to discredit me. It just makes u sound so bitter and twisted. very sad man if u have problem with my signature let mse sort it instead of ruining this thread
    Originally posted by geordie_taxi

    But you dont though.

    Still, so many questions posed to you and you still have not answered. Speaks volumes.
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • geordie_taxi
    Really? Are you sure?
    Originally posted by Stigy
    yes. sum u win sum u lose. u shud know that as a railway car parking warden

    but with the incompetent mess these barrack room lawyers made at swt prosecution dept i wud take my chances

    http://www.thisisdorset.net/news/9968430.Magistrate__in_despair__as_South_West_Trai ns_blunders_derail_nine_prosecutions/?ref=rss

    #jeff i answer ur questions and then u decide to ignore the answers and state i havent answered them. so i have to repost the answers with quotes to ur questions to help u and then u still avoid my answers

    it seems to me that the bitterness in ur posts is all to evident and that speaks volumes
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
    • Stigy
    • By Stigy 22nd Apr 13, 6:08 PM
    • 1,532 Posts
    • 638 Thanks
    Stigy
    yes. sum u win sum u lose. u shud know that as a railway car parking warden

    but with the incompetent mess these barrack room lawyers made at swt prosecution dept i wud take my chances

    http://www.thisisdorset.net/news/9968430.Magistrate__in_despair__as_South_West_Trai ns_blunders_derail_nine_prosecutions/?ref=rss

    #jeff i answer ur questions and then u decide to ignore the answers and state i havent answered them. so i have to repost the answers with quotes to ur questions to help u and then u still avoid my answers

    it seems to me that the bitterness in ur posts is all to evident and that speaks volumes
    Originally posted by geordie_taxi
    I believe you've posted that link before and once again it doesn't actually relate to the post beforehand. That case showed SWT withdraw cases after their paperword was apparently not in order, not after being contested. You said the TOC wimp out when a case is contested. I posted a reply which stated, at depth, otherwise. So have you anything of use to add that is actually true? I imagine you'll reply with a quote of this post, crossed out, instead containing inaccuracies.
    Last edited by Stigy; 22-04-2013 at 6:13 PM.
  • Slowhand
    yes. sum u win sum u lose. u shud know that as a railway car parking warden

    but with the incompetent mess these barrack room lawyers made at swt prosecution dept i wud take my chances

    http://www.thisisdorset.net/news/9968430.Magistrate__in_despair__as_South_West_Trai ns_blunders_derail_nine_prosecutions/?ref=rss

    #jeff i answer ur questions and then u decide to ignore the answers and state i havent answered them. so i have to repost the answers with quotes to ur questions to help u and then u still avoid my answers

    it seems to me that the bitterness in ur posts is all to evident and that speaks volumes
    Originally posted by geordie_taxi
    Do you know that as well as posting nonsense that a lot of the keys on your keyboard are faulty?
    • Jeff Bridges hair
    • By Jeff Bridges hair 1st May 13, 3:12 AM
    • 5,952 Posts
    • 7,233 Thanks
    Jeff Bridges hair
    childish jeff its only an internet forum and ive got better things 2 do with my time like help people with fare problems



    already answered those questions correctly I can provide links to were the answers r or were u agreed with me if u like

    as to ur drivel about my signature it seems to me one last roll of the dice to discredit me. It just makes u sound so bitter and twisted. very sad man if u have problem with my signature let mse sort it instead of ruining this thread
    Originally posted by geordie_taxi
    I asked you questions about ticketing yes and saw that you made a rush to post some rather quickly.

    Now can you answer me the questions I posed to you about your signature?
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
    • thelawnet
    • By thelawnet 1st May 13, 3:06 PM
    • 2,466 Posts
    • 1,692 Thanks
    thelawnet
    I asked you questions about ticketing yes and saw that you made a rush to post some rather quickly.

    Now can you answer me the questions I posed to you about your signature?
    Originally posted by Jeff Bridges hair
    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49211

    I think.
    • Jeff Bridges hair
    • By Jeff Bridges hair 1st May 13, 10:45 PM
    • 5,952 Posts
    • 7,233 Thanks
    Jeff Bridges hair
    Oh Im aware of that forums fare workshops, but he is claiming something else I think. And given that Yorkie and blasted him before on here for his advice I very much doubt it was one of them he attended nor that gave him his false accreditation
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 2nd May 13, 8:55 AM
    • 40,482 Posts
    • 24,548 Thanks
    Quentin
    ..... given that Yorkie and blasted him before on here .......
    Originally posted by Jeff Bridges hair
    Doesn't your yorkie blast everyone on MSE who dares to correct anyone coming here from the "powerful" hectors and chocolate policeman's forum with their jobsworth attitude?

    You seem to be saying a blast from yorkie carries some authority.

    Get real!
    Last edited by Quentin; 02-05-2013 at 9:05 AM.
  • geordie_taxi
    Not bad Sherlock, ever fort of a job with BTP

    You seem to be saying a blast from yorkie jeff carries some authority.
    Originally posted by Quentin
    sorry Quentin hope u don't mind me correcting ur quote

    #jeff I answered all ur questions with factual, accurate and correct answers with links to backup those answers tbh my best is wasted on you, I'm just letting you stay around because I like toying with halfwits
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
    • Jeff Bridges hair
    • By Jeff Bridges hair 3rd May 13, 1:32 AM
    • 5,952 Posts
    • 7,233 Thanks
    Jeff Bridges hair
    Doesn't your yorkie blast everyone on MSE who dares to correct anyone coming here from the "powerful" hectors and chocolate policeman's forum with their jobsworth attitude?

    You seem to be saying a blast from yorkie carries some authority.

    Get real!
    Originally posted by Quentin
    He isnt my yorkie at all so dont know what you are getting at there either as I dont use that forum. My point being why would his forum accredit GE with such a title if he is then slates him for providing wrong or misleading information?

    #jeff I answered all ur questions with factual, accurate and correct answers with links to backup those answers tbh my best is wasted on you, I'm just letting you stay around because I like toying with halfwits
    Originally posted by geordie_taxi
    Actually you have not. I have been asking you about your signature and who these people are and how you got an accreditation from them when they apparently do not exist anywhere.

    Also the answers I asked you to provide earlier in this thread from the NCoC, you did, but you only selected hte part that you wanted to select which wasnt the full answer and was indeed misleading(again) because if you carried on looking further down then you wouldve found the same information from the same document that firstclassx provided, but you didnt becaus e you knoew that would show you to be wrong.


    So where did you get your signature from?

    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited

    Oh and now I have seen you change it to include New Deal. Sorry to say old chum , that the New Deal photocard does not exist anymore. Some expert eh folks.

    Toot Toot!!
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • geordie_taxi
    Actually you have not...blah....blah....blah
    Originally posted by Jeff Bridges hair
    yawn..........on numerous occasions i have answered ur questions, it's just that u decided not to accept my correct answers instead u try and trash the thread by going on about my signature

    Oh and now I have seen you change it to include New Deal.
    Originally posted by Jeff Bridges hair
    after u have finished ur internet meltdown, have u fort that perhaps i didnt change it and it was in fact MSE, after i proved evidence of accreditation to them. Please forgive me but the accreditation provided includes personal info, so i wont post it here as i dont want any stalkers/trolls/jeffs knocking at my door.

    Some expert eh folks.
    Originally posted by Jeff Bridges hair
    this sums u up jeff



    toddle pip for now sweet cheeks!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by geordie_taxi; 03-05-2013 at 3:44 PM.
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
    • dzug1
    • By dzug1 3rd May 13, 1:49 PM
    • 13,359 Posts
    • 6,125 Thanks
    dzug1
    Is this pointless spat ever going to end?

    There's been nothing useful on this thread for a couple of weeks but it just goes on and on and on......
    • Jeff Bridges hair
    • By Jeff Bridges hair 7th May 13, 10:39 PM
    • 5,952 Posts
    • 7,233 Thanks
    Jeff Bridges hair
    Is this pointless spat ever going to end?

    There's been nothing useful on this thread for a couple of weeks but it just goes on and on and on......
    Originally posted by dzug1
    Oh I dont know dzug1 its been quite fun especially when you find out that someone is telling porkies



    after u have finished ur internet meltdown, have u fort that perhaps i didnt change it and it was in fact MSE, after i proved evidence of accreditation to them. Please forgive me but the accreditation provided includes personal info, so i wont post it here as i dont want any stalkers/trolls/jeffs knocking at my door.
    Originally posted by geordie_taxi
    Tut Tut Tut GE.
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • geordie_taxi
    Is this pointless spat ever going to end?

    There's been nothing useful on this thread for a couple of weeks but it just goes on and on and on......
    Originally posted by dzug1
    i found it hilariously funny proving a certain poster wrong on countless occasions then watching as that poster went into an internet meltdown over a signature

    but dzug i agree unless the op posts with new info this thread is best left for the MSE graveyard.
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
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