Ford Ecoboost - engine failure

We bought my daughter a second-hand Ford Focus just over a year ago, with the new 1.0 Ecoboost 125 bhp engine. Bought it from a non-Ford car dealer. Found it was loosing coolant after buying it. The car dealer was useless but we found out there was a recall by Ford to fix a coolant degas pipe, that was likely to fail completely and destroy the engine. So the car was booked into the local Ford dealer about 9 months ago, the pipe replaced and the coolant loss fixed. Last week the engine failed - I suspect a blown head gasket.

The car is now just over 4 years old, so outside it's Ford warrenty. It's done about 50,000 miles, with a full service history (last two non-Ford). If it is a failed head gasket, then this would be related to the coolant loss - a design fault. We don't know how it was treated prior to my daughter getting it (e.g. if the previous owner let the coolant run very low).

My daughter's spoken to Ford, who said take it into the local dealer (we'll have to get it towed there) and pay for a diagnosis. Then they will consider it.

What do you think the chances are of Ford paying for the repair?
If Ford refuse to cover the repair costs, it is worth pursueing this?

Thanks

Tim
«13456720

Comments

  • Strider590
    Strider590 Posts: 11,874 Forumite
    edited 4 March 2017 at 3:22PM
    Given that most cars now give you a warning light when there is a coolant issue, I would say they might claim customer negligence was the cause.

    The degas hose is (AFAIK) simply one of the hoses into the coolant reservoir, which from what I can tell is extremely fragile and made of the wrong materials. So I would expect a significant coolant loss, overheating and other warnings before the HG went.

    "Degas" seems to be the American term, they use it to describe the coolant reservoir.
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  • natlol
    natlol Posts: 91
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    I am looking at buying a 2013 Focus with this ecoboast engine. I am becoming increasing concerned at the amount of information there is on the web about this pipe failing. There are instances of it failing after the modification has been carried out. From research, it seems that when it goes there simply isn't enough time to stop and turn off the engine before serious damage is done. The issue seems to be that these engines are worked hard and therefore run hotter then a traditional petrol. It seems there have been a number of revisions to the design of the head on these engines. What registration is yours?

    I can't work out if I am worrying over nothing or whether there is a serious problem with the life span of these engines.
  • Strider590
    Strider590 Posts: 11,874 Forumite
    natlol wrote: »
    I am looking at buying a 2013 Focus with this ecoboast engine. I am becoming increasing concerned at the amount of information there is on the web about this pipe failing. There are instances of it failing after the modification has been carried out. From research, it seems that when it goes there simply isn't enough time to stop and turn off the engine before serious damage is done. The issue seems to be that these engines are worked hard and therefore run hotter then a traditional petrol. It seems there have been a number of revisions to the design of the head on these engines. What registration is yours?

    I can't work out if I am worrying over nothing or whether there is a serious problem with the life span of these engines.

    Well the whole idea of them is to have a small economical engine, with a turbo for when you want to go faster.
    The problem is that people drive around on the turbo all the time.
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  • forgotmyname
    forgotmyname Posts: 32,517
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    edited 4 March 2017 at 5:57PM
    You didnt buy it from a Ford dealer so any goodwill will probably outweigh their labour rates.

    They may offer yo 50% off, but a couple of thousand still to pay by yourself, where your likely to be able to get it fixed for less elsewhere.

    The diagnostics will set you back a few quid also. Plenty of places will do that for free.

    If it had a full Ford service record then you may have got somewhere, but 2 services outside the dealer network = very little chance.

    Take it to a specialist instead.

    You say the headgasket would be related to the coolant loss, change that to COULD.

    The damage is usually caused by the driving not noticing the temperature gauge climbing and switching it off before it gets too hot or they do spot it and keep driving anyway.

    Temperature goes above normal you pull over and switch it off right away, how often does she check under the bonnet?
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  • flashg67
    flashg67 Posts: 3,993
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    Worth a try, but you're relying on goodwill, and non-dealer service can negate goodwill.

    I think at 4 years old, you'd need an independent report to back up any claim of an inherent fault, which may be hard to prove - an engineer can only see what the current state of any components are and use their experience/knowledge to make an educated guess at the root cause.
  • forgotmyname
    forgotmyname Posts: 32,517
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    2 services outside the dealer network also..
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  • debtdebt
    debtdebt Posts: 949 Forumite
    I have nothing to add but is this just a result of small engines being overly tuned and running high boost pressure by the manufacturer in an attempt to keep emissions low? I wouldn't really want to run such a highly stressed engine.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,077
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    natlol wrote: »
    There are instances of it failing after the modification has been carried out. From research, it seems that when it goes there simply isn't enough time to stop and turn off the engine before serious damage is done.

    That's completely incorrect because there is both a temperature gauge and a warning light. The low fluid warning light would go on before the temperature started to get dangerously high and it would do it at a point there was still plenty of water in the system. In addition you'd most likely see some steam coming out of the bonnet on one side. When the hose fails it does not empty the cooling system instantaneously or even anywhere close. There is plenty of time to do it and in fact you could drive quite a few miles before any damage occurred. I've had top hoses split which do chuck a lot of water out and you have plenty of time to pull over and turn off the engine.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,077
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    debtdebt wrote: »
    I have nothing to add but is this just a result of small engines being overly tuned and running high boost pressure by the manufacturer in an attempt to keep emissions low? I wouldn't really want to run such a highly stressed engine.

    No. They're not highly stressed for a modern engine. For a start they use three cylinders instead of four which means larger pistons for the size which means they can be stronger. The compression ratio is around 10.5:1 compared to the 19.5:1 my Mondeo TDCi is so internal cylinder pressure levels are lower. Also the boost is restricted in 1st gear, the gear damage is most likely to be a problem, to 12PSI compared to the 20PSI maximum it is set to which again, is the same as my Mondeo TDCi. So it runs the same boost as a Mondeo TDCi but with half the compression ratio so about half the internal cylinder pressures and you don't see people worrying about the mileage a Mondeo TDCi will do with most people expecting >200,000 miles.
  • Strider590
    Strider590 Posts: 11,874 Forumite
    Tarambor wrote: »
    No. They're not highly stressed for a modern engine. For a start they use three cylinders instead of four which means larger pistons for the size which means they can be stronger. The compression ratio is around 10.5:1 compared to the 19.5:1 my Mondeo TDCi is so internal cylinder pressure levels are lower. Also the boost is restricted in 1st gear, the gear damage is most likely to be a problem, to 12PSI compared to the 20PSI maximum it is set to which again, is the same as my Mondeo TDCi. So it runs the same boost as a Mondeo TDCi but with half the compression ratio so about half the internal cylinder pressures and you don't see people worrying about the mileage a Mondeo TDCi will do with most people expecting >200,000 miles.

    I would be more concerned about a cheaply produced turbo, fitted to an engine subject higher RPMs that that of a Diesel.
    It has become clear to me that unlike other makes, Ford don't build their cars to last even 1000 miles more than they're designed for.

    I have a Mondeo and the build quality and attention to detail is sorely lacking when compared to my old Vectra. Even stupid things like not designing proper covers for access to the tail lights via the boot, not having seatbelts that are held out of the way when dropping the rear seats forward, a great big hole just in front of the drivers seat containing a channel for cables where once stepped on the carpet gets ripped up, and under the hood plastic clips/screws holding everything in place, very easily broken/damaged.
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