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UKPC parking ticket at Screwfix customer car park

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  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025
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    Sorry - can't read the signs and the parking conditions or even the charges.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,633
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    edited 18 April 2016 at 5:15PM
    Had another look and the photos loaded this time.

    Perfect as evidence! Unreadable small print set up on a wall with no lighting, just what you want for your POPLA appeal. You can't read the £100 or £60 or any terms at all so cannot have agreed to that charge, never mind any other issues. This sign differs from that in the Beavis case where the charge was in large lettering and had colour contrast to make it deemed by the Supreme Court Judges, as very clear and prominent.

    Here's a POPLA Appeal about unreadable/high/small font signage being worked on right now:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5442143

    But POPLA is harder to win at present, as they are making some awful decisions so read the most recent posts in 'POPLA Decisions' to see the bullets you need to dodge.

    Show us your draft POPLA appeal after a week or so of putting it together based on recent 2016 threads. No rush. Nothing about 'no GPEOL/loss' please in the draft; if you find that in an example, it's too old.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • camelcx
    camelcx Posts: 50
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    Thanks guys for you help. I'll try to put them together and probably post the draft this weekend.
  • camelcx
    camelcx Posts: 50
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    Hi guys, here's the POPLA appeal draft i've put together. Could anyone please review it and give some comment on that? Thanks a lot. :)
    I'm not sure about the second appeal point yet. The PCN was issued only a week ago.



    UKPC, PCN No. xx

    xx/xx/2016

    POPLA Code: xx

    VRN: xxxxxx
    References:

    REF [A] - BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice Version 6 Dated: October 2015
    REF - Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

    I am the keeper of this vehicle and this is my appeal. I respectfully ask that all points be taken into consideration.

    On the above date, the quoted Parking Charge Notice was issued sighting “Parked for longer than the maximum period permitted”. This charge has been appealed directly with UKPC within the allowed 28 days and rejected.

    I challenge this 'PCN' as the keeper of the car. The driver believes that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the terms unclear to drivers before they park. Furthermore, I understand UKPC do not own the car park and have given me no information about their policy with the landowner to issue such a charge. UKPC have failed to provide such documentation despite being requested to do so.

    I contest the charge and request it is dismissed on the following grounds:

    1. Unclear and non-compliant signage, forming no contract with drivers.
    2. NO KEEPER LIABILITY UNDER POFA 2012
    3. No Landowner Authority

    1. Unclear and non-compliant signage, forming no contract with drivers.

    The signs do not meet the minimum requirements in part 18 of the BPA code of practice.

    (a) Section 18.1 of the BPA Code of Practice it states that “A driver who uses your private car park with your permission does so under a licence or contract with you. If they park without your permission this will usually be an act of trespass. In all cases, the driver’s use of your land will be governed by your terms and conditions, which the driver should be made aware of from the start. You must use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your terms and conditions are.”
    (b) Section 18.3 that “Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm.”

    The signage failed to comply with the above requirements as the terms and conditions regarding parking charge and maximum stay period are printed in unreadable small font-size. The driver cannot read any of these terms from within a car nor during the parking process. Furthermore, the signage is set up on a wall with other posters of advertisements with much larger font-size than even the biggest font-size on the signage, which makes the signage hard to identify. Thus, the signage is neither “easy to find” nor “easy to see/read”.

    (c) Appendix B, Mandatory Entrance Signs, of the BPA CoP states:
    (iv) “Signs should be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk if and when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times. This can be achieved in a variety of ways such as by direct lighting or by using the lighting for the parking area. If the sign itself is not directly or indirectly lit, we suggest that it should be made of a retro-reflective material similar to that used on public roads and described in the Traffic Signs Manual.”

    This requirement is not complied with since enforcement is ‘At All Times’ but the signs are neither lit by lighting nor made of retro-reflective material.


    Quoting a high profile court case, ParkingEye-v-Beavis, Judges were impressed that (from the evidence they were shown) the signs were large, prominent and with the charge in 'large lettering' throughout the site, which they felt gave the driver every opportunity to discover the terms by which he would later be bound.

    The signage from the operator here is not prominent and with the charge and other terms in unreadable small letter. Therefore, no consideration flowed between the parties and no chance of accepting a contract that a consumer cannot read and does not know is there at all, even when looking around the car park the signs are obscured, sparse and illegible which is hardly compliant with Lord Denning's 'red hand rule' for onerous terms like a disproportionate and unknown 'fine'.

    2. NO KEEPER LIABILITY UNDER POFA 2012

    No Notice to Keeper was issued therefore no compliance with the POFA 2012 - no keeper liability

    The keeper liability requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 must be strictly complied with where the appellant is the Keeper, as in this case.

    As a Notice to Driver was provided on the vehicle, a NTK is required to be issued no sooner than 28 days after, or no later than 56 days after the service of that notice. This stipulation is laid out in Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. The alleged infringement occurred on xx/01/2016 and it is understood that the NTK was required to reach the registered keeper no earlier than xx/02/2016 and no later than xx/03/2016, this date has passed & the operator has failed to serve a ‘notice to keeper’ in any form whatsoever, therefore the conditions set out by paragraph 6 in Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 have not been complied with, there can be no keeper liability. It follows that POPLA will not be able to find that the charge notice is enforceable against the keeper. As a result I request that UKPC provide evidence to POPLA of who the driver was.

    As there has been no admission regarding who was driving the vehicle and no evidence of this has been provided by the operator, it has been held by POPLA multiple times that a parking charge with no NTK cannot be enforced against the registered keeper.

    3. No Landowner Authority

    As UKPC do not have proprietary interest in the land then I demand that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner that authorises them to offer contracts for parking in their name, to issue Parking Charge Notices and take legal action in their name for breach of contract. I do not believe they have such a contract.

    I do not believe they have such a contract and specifically they must demonstrate that they can enforce this charge in their own name and all of the following from the BPA CoP:

    7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

    7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

    a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

    b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

    c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

    d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

    e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,633
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    camelcx wrote: »
    Thanks guys for you help. I'll try to put them together and probably post the draft this weekend.

    Do you mean you have already appealed this to UKPC and got a rejection letter with POPLA code within a week? Almost unheard of for UKPC.

    Or are you merely ahead of yourself and should not even be appealing this yet until day 25 or 26, using the short blue template in the NEWBIES thread? As per bod1467's first answer.

    We can come back to review & discuss POPLA in a month or so!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • camelcx
    camelcx Posts: 50
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Show us your draft POPLA appeal after a week or so of putting it together based on recent 2016 threads. No rush. Nothing about 'no GPEOL/loss' please in the draft; if you find that in an example, it's too old.
    Thought you said after a week :D

    And, no, i didn't appeal to anyone yet. Will wait and use the template on day 25.
    Alright, we will discuss the POPLA appeal a month later then :beer:
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,633
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    True, I did say take a week to look around to put a POPLA appeal together but only now have I spotted you aren't even there yet! Sorry!

    Still, you will need to resurrect this thread later and have done some groundwork which will help you later.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • camelcx
    camelcx Posts: 50
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    Update 1: appealed to ukpc yesterday using the template, no reply yet.
    Update 2: received an NTK, for ANOTHER case at exactly the same place and similar time on 02/04. Didn't receive any windscreen ticket before but their figure proof shows something on the windscreen. The NTK was issued on 06/05, I received it today.

    Looks like I got another one to appeal now.
  • camelcx
    camelcx Posts: 50
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    Received two letters asking for driver information. Both were issued on 17th May and said if I do not provide the information within 21 days they will reject with a POLPA code. I ignored the letters but haven't received any rejection letter yet. Should I contact UKPC for a POPLA code or just wait? Any advice?
  • Northlakes
    Northlakes Posts: 826
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    I think you need to go through any photographic evidence METICULOUSLY as it might be a double take.
    REVENGE IS A DISH BETTER SERVED COLD
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