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  • FIRST POST
    1connect
    WARNING! Online bidding rip off at BCA British Car Auctions
    • #1
    • 17th May 11, 8:18 AM
    WARNING! Online bidding rip off at BCA British Car Auctions 17th May 11 at 8:18 AM
    ????? are they really ripping us off ?????

    I was at BCA yesterday, and I was SHOCKED and OUTRAGED at what I believe was happening...

    Firstly some background about traditional FAKE bidding, some unscrupulous auction houses and auctioneers will take a real bid from punter A at the front of the room and to artificially inflate the price they will then "pretend" to take a FAKE bid from punter B who doesn't exist to then force another bid from punter A, the problem with this is that then, if the auctioneer reads the body language wrong and goes too far of punter A he can be left on the higher bod which id fake, they then frequently come back to punter A and say "I can take 50 if it helps" (half the bid increment) to reset the end bid back on the real punter. effectiveley this is fraud.

    OK so now you understand this scam, what believe I saw at BCA Castle Bromwich in May 2011 was FAR WORSE!
    The auctioneer was taking bids from the Hall and the Net except this is what I saw happen, the hall bids finished, he then carried on rattling off fake bids against the internet bidder forcing up the price by some 800 or so, and when the web bidders bids where exhausted he was left with a fake hall bid, I then saw the bid click BACK to the WEB BIDDER , yes they clicked the software to get the max bid to re focus on the REAL bidder ... UNBELIEVABLE !!!!!!

    I should say I have been around cars and auctions all my life, with a family owned garage for half a century.

    This guy was not even looking up between fake bids he was BLATANTLY playing the guy on the web and backing it up with FALSE verbal web commentary, as if there was a REAL BIDDER IN THE HALL.

    I have to say I was disgusted.

    SO for this reason I would advise ANYBODY considering buying a car FROM AUCTION on the web NOT TO BOTHER , instead go to the auction hall and watch the auctioneers eyes and follow then to the person in the hall looking for REAL signs of a REAL BIDDER.

    Make this obvious top the auctioneer by tracking the bids and signals he is following, he might NOT bid you against a FAKE "fresh air" buyer.

    YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - FROM SOMEONE WITH INSIDE EXPERT TRADE KNOWLEDGE - DONT DO IT ONLINE - GO TO THE AUCTION - FOLLOW THE BID SIGNALS - NEVER ACCEPT A FINAL BID IF IT HAS BEEN HALVED - DO NOT SHOW ANY BODY LANGUAGE THAT YOU ARE DITHERING ABOUT A MAX BID (USE YOUR POKER FACE) - SET A PRICE AND STICK TO IT

    RIP OFF BRITAIN STRIKES AGAIN :- I HOPE ANY AUCTION HOUSE DOING THIS IS INVESTIGATED FOR FRAUD
    Last edited by 1connect; 18-05-2011 at 8:29 AM.
Page 3
    • RMS2
    • By RMS2 14th Nov 14, 8:18 AM
    • 332 Posts
    • 166 Thanks
    RMS2
    This is quite normal for auctions. I went to a car auction in Brentford about 30 years ago, back when they were 'proper' auctions held in the evening, full of dodgy geezers.


    If you weren't a regular, you stood out, now matter what sort of get up you put on. The regulars all had their standard attire, including clipboards and mobile phones strung over their shoulder that were the size of three house bricks.


    I wasn't exactly wet behind the ears, but a little slower on the uptake back then. It took me a while to realise what was happening and it was happening on a car I was bidding for, so I immediately pulled out. To which the auctioneer turned to me and said, I sure if you give it just one more bid you'll get it.


    To which I said, no thanks, you just bought it, you keep it. As has been said, the auctioneer will take bids off the wall all the time. There's a clip from something like Homes under the Hammer, about two ladies bidding at auction and all the other buyers dropped out, but they were so busy gassing to themselves, that the auctioneer was openly pointing his arm to the left wall (they were on the right) and knocking the bids up, it was so blatant people were giggling to themselves.


    They must have paid about 20K over what they should have done.
    • harveybobbles
    • By harveybobbles 14th Nov 14, 10:40 PM
    • 8,748 Posts
    • 4,019 Thanks
    harveybobbles
    I remember that HUTH clip.

    I knew an old guy who worked for Lex Vehicle Leasing in Manchester. Used to see him at BCA Bellvue most weeks.

    He'd be bidding on his own cars that he'd entered. The reason - he was buying them for clients.

    Company policy meant that he wasnt allowed to cherry pick before they went to auction, but if he had someone lined up he was more than welcome to bid on them.
    • justapoorboy
    • By justapoorboy 15th Nov 14, 8:34 AM
    • 102 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    justapoorboy
    I've been reading accusations like this online for 20 years.
    Back then it was Americans and american auctions, different types of auctions but the same story.
  • spencer777
    BCA needs to play fair
    Hi,

    Really interesting post Re BCA and bidding up/fixing prices.

    Ive been buying from BCA for 14 years or so mainly for vehicles for my own use, and have alway come away with a good buy and have been happy with how BCA have behaved. I have noticed of late that BCA are trying to market/sell to Joe public which Im sure small used car dealers are not too pleased about?

    This is my story: Over the last month I have been to BCA twice, to a manufactures sale and large lease company sale. I was flexible and had a number of vehicles that I bid on. I did bid and noticed part through the bidding the auctioneer say "selling this lot" and at the end of the bidding the hammer fell and he said "sold". The same person purchased the lots I was bidding on. Yet 2 days later these lots are back online and for sale at the next BCA sale. I telephoned BCA and they told me that the lots did not meet the reserve price. So why is the auctioneer saying selling, banging the hammer and sold?
    I think that the sellers ie the Lease company is bidding these lots up, and in this case the auctioneer/BCA are colluding with the seller to get a higher price.
    I agree with some earlier posts about shill bids to get the lot up to the reserve price. I think this is ok and happens at property auctions too. But this case is different and the auctioneer is missleading the bidders by telling them the lot is selling when its not.
    Any thoughts?
    • harveybobbles
    • By harveybobbles 14th Dec 14, 1:30 PM
    • 8,748 Posts
    • 4,019 Thanks
    harveybobbles
    Any thoughts?
    Originally posted by spencer777
    Move on with life?
    • RFW
    • By RFW 14th Dec 14, 7:35 PM
    • 8,759 Posts
    • 5,092 Thanks
    RFW
    I think that the sellers ie the Lease company is bidding these lots up, and in this case the auctioneer/BCA are colluding with the seller to get a higher price.
    I agree with some earlier posts about shill bids to get the lot up to the reserve price. I think this is ok and happens at property auctions too. But this case is different and the auctioneer is missleading the bidders by telling them the lot is selling when its not.
    Any thoughts?
    Originally posted by spencer777
    Check their terms and conditions, they're bound to say something along the lines of "the auctioneer reserves the right to bid on behalf of the vendor".

    If they sold every vehicle to the "real" highest bidder they would be out of business in 6 months. They've always done it. I'd put a substantial bet that most of the cars you have bought from them have had the auctioneer as one of the bidders. A majority of their customers will be aware of it and pay the price they are willing to pay, sometimes getting a bargain.

    They will rarely have vehicles going through sold without reserve.
    .
    • Mrjimbly
    • By Mrjimbly 29th Oct 15, 9:14 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mrjimbly
    Fake bids
    It is a fact that some auctions will run up the price by accepting non existent bids from within the room and on line.
    I have been buying from BCA for about 30 years, I have been in the auction hall with as few as 10 people with no idea where the bids are coming from and all of the people in the hall have questioned each other about who bid and none did so all bids were fictional.
    I have also purchased a car where my bid was provisional, meaning that the car had not reached the reserve price, I then had to try to negotiate a price with the seller with the auction being an intermediary, I offered 100 more, the auction staff called the seller who sent back the message that my offer was still too low, so I made a few more offers and eventually I was told that the seller was no longer available and that the auction would call me if my final offer was accepted. I knew the company that was the owner of the car, found the person that was responsible for acceptingthe price or not. Our conversation was short bu he told me that the car had been through so mant times that it needed to be gone and that he would have willingly accepted my first offer that was made in the ring, and that BCA had NOT called about this car.
    I then told Bca that I had spoken to the seller and if they called him now he will confirm this, I bought the car, drove it home and sat stewing knowing that I had just been ripped off by BCA, I then drove the car back told them what I knew had happened, and how they had committed fraud by lying in order to maximise their commission and also every entry by the seller would have a cost. They offered my money back as long as I could say that the car has a fault, I did not have any major faults but I wanted my money back because of fraud, they told me that if I wanted to put fraud as my reason that I would have to take them to court and that could cost a fortune and take years, and of course I could loose, where as if I put on the sheet that the car was faulty I would have my money put back on my card now, I felt I had no real choice so I put that the car had a flet battery, and I got my money back.
    A flat battery is never a reason to back a car but was accepted as better for all.
    I could go on I have seen it first hand many times, I now like to play with the auctioneers where I look really excited about a car and I make offers quickly and the auctioneer thinks that I will pay anything for a car then suddenly stop leaving him with his fictional bid, and they often don't know what to do now, often they will call me over and tell me that the higher bidder has no deposit or has disappeared or some other lame excuse for why they are now offering me the car, I always decline their offer thanks. All traders know this happens, but accept it and moan about it to each other, where as mostly the sellers are happy as fictional bids mean higher returns for them.
    Fictional bids are illegal but hard to prove, also the only reason that an auction can sell without consumer rights is because of competitive tender, if there is no other real bidder being your competitor then you would have full consumer rights and warranty etc, exactly as you actually do have if your bid is rejected and you negotiate a price with the seller via the provisionals department.
    This is no longer an auction sale as the competitive element of the sale has been removed and is a straight forward sale with the auction house acting as a retailer as they are the people that you are dealing with and are as responsible as any car dealer selling you the same car on a for out or from his house. This is the same as a car dealer offering a car on behalf of someone else (a sale or return car), this is a sale between you and the person that you are actually speaking to not the person that owns the car.
    • RFW
    • By RFW 29th Oct 15, 10:18 AM
    • 8,759 Posts
    • 5,092 Thanks
    RFW
    Fictional bids are illegal but hard to prove, also the only reason that an auction can sell without consumer rights is because of competitive tender, if there is no other real bidder being your competitor then you would have full consumer rights and warranty etc, exactly as you actually do have if your bid is rejected and you negotiate a price with the seller via the provisionals department.
    Originally posted by Mrjimbly
    They would just say that they are "bidding on behalf of the vendor", which is legal, with or without the permission/consent of the vendor.

    I don't really see why some of these places bother with the hassle of having a physical public auction, the technology is available for them to do something very different. It wouldn't be too difficult to come up with a sale that was a little more honest for both buyers and sellers. I've barely ever dealt in cars (I did a few auctions back in the day) but I do know there is one very honest saleroom local to me. So I know it can be done.

    Sadly, some companies have tied themselves up in so much deceit that it's just how they work. If you run an auction where a success is selling 12% of the stock then there has to be a lot of nothing going on.
    .
    • Wadadli Cooler
    • By Wadadli Cooler 6th Dec 16, 1:09 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Wadadli Cooler
    The practice of throwing in fictitious bids to push up the price is known as trotting and takes place in all auctions. I've been buying at BCA as a private buyer since the early eighties and they have always done it. Particularly they use it to get rid of persistent private buyers so that their mates in the trade get the deals. Thats why you often see a prticular vehicle go through many times even though it appears to have been sold each time. The final bidder often does not exist. They use trotting to lift the mood of the auction and keep it from bogging down. Auctioneers earn a very good income for good reason.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 6th Dec 16, 8:52 PM
    • 17,607 Posts
    • 10,672 Thanks
    motorguy
    The practice of throwing in fictitious bids to push up the price is known as trotting and takes place in all auctions. I've been buying at BCA as a private buyer since the early eighties and they have always done it. Particularly they use it to get rid of persistent private buyers so that their mates in the trade get the deals. Thats why you often see a prticular vehicle go through many times even though it appears to have been sold each time. The final bidder often does not exist. They use trotting to lift the mood of the auction and keep it from bogging down. Auctioneers earn a very good income for good reason.
    Originally posted by Wadadli Cooler
    You post for the first time in 7 3/4 years to restart a thread that was started 5 years ago and not updated in a year?
    Last edited by motorguy; 06-12-2016 at 8:58 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 7th Dec 16, 8:54 AM
    • 1,944 Posts
    • 2,725 Thanks
    tykesi
    You post for the first time in 7 3/4 years to restart a thread that was started 5 years ago and not updated in a year?
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Slowest post builder.......... EVER!
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