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    • MannyLondon
    • By MannyLondon 16th Nov 19, 7:01 AM
    • 12Posts
    • 0Thanks
    MannyLondon
    Sueing the local council
    • #1
    • 16th Nov 19, 7:01 AM
    Sueing the local council 16th Nov 19 at 7:01 AM
    Hi All,

    I applied for a vehicle crossover and the application has been refused. The reason provided does not reflect whatís written on the council policy. We involved the local ward councillor and she said that the response for the council looks very inconsistent to say the least. We then had several exchanges with the officer who rejected our application to no avail (they keep coming up with all sort or reasons, he does not understand its own policy, we feel that they are taking the mick).

    Whatís my options? Can I sue the council? We are well within all mandatory criteria for the application so we really donít understand why they donít grant it and the reasons provided donít add up. We even thought that there is another reason (fraud? Some dodgy stuff going on at the back?). We have a good written trail of evidence and their responses.
Page 1
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 16th Nov 19, 7:31 AM
    • 4,303 Posts
    • 5,757 Thanks
    unforeseen
    • #2
    • 16th Nov 19, 7:31 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Nov 19, 7:31 AM
    What are you planning on suing them for?
    • MannyLondon
    • By MannyLondon 16th Nov 19, 8:54 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MannyLondon
    • #3
    • 16th Nov 19, 8:54 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Nov 19, 8:54 AM
    The officer has not applied their own rules properly, the reasons provided for refusing are inconsistent, they keep coming up with new reasons every time we ask to explain and the new reasons are not stated in the policy or procedures. The is absolutely no logical answer, and that is driving me mad. I would have sucked it all in and stop morning if the reasons provided were right and fair. Looks like an officer has decided not to approve our application and thatís it, end of. I would like someone to read the rules, look at the officerís response, draw a conclusion in an objective manner. I even suspect something really dodgy that might be happening behind the scenes (bribery or some sort of fraud comes to mind). Seriously, it looks so wrong that I couldnít do anything worse even if I trio ed. This is in effect penalising our household as we are not able to park on our (potential) driveway.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 16th Nov 19, 9:09 AM
    • 4,303 Posts
    • 5,757 Thanks
    unforeseen
    • #4
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:09 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:09 AM
    You need to put a complaint into the local government ombudsman in the first instance

    https://www.lgo.org.uk/
    • missile
    • By missile 16th Nov 19, 9:52 AM
    • 10,340 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    missile
    • #5
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:52 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:52 AM
    First option would be an official complaint to the council.

    Your local councillor doesn't seem to have done very much on your behalf?
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • MannyLondon
    • By MannyLondon 16th Nov 19, 9:52 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MannyLondon
    • #6
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:52 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:52 AM
    Thanks a lot, will certainly do that. Very useful. Do they take these things seriously, are they truly impartial?
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 16th Nov 19, 9:56 AM
    • 23,431 Posts
    • 58,686 Thanks
    Tigsteroonie
    • #7
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:56 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:56 AM
    You have to follow all tiers of the Council's complaints system before you can take matters to the LGO.

    I have to say, I've found our council's complaints team quite fair and professional in their investigations but when matters are subjective, they side with the council. I've only used the LGO once, they came down on my side against the council.
    Mrs Marleyboy

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    Proud Parents to an Au-some son
    • MannyLondon
    • By MannyLondon 16th Nov 19, 9:58 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MannyLondon
    • #8
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:58 AM
    • #8
    • 16th Nov 19, 9:58 AM
    The local councillor seemed helpful at first but she kind of disappeared afterwards. Perhaps she discovered something and then radio silence. All very suspicious. As of today, after many emails, phone calls, voice mails etc we still have not seen a single reason for rejecting our application.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 16th Nov 19, 11:21 AM
    • 7,146 Posts
    • 5,407 Thanks
    sheramber
    • #9
    • 16th Nov 19, 11:21 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Nov 19, 11:21 AM
    I would like someone to read the rules, look at the officer’s response, draw a conclusion in an objective manner.

    Then you need to give that 'someone' the relevant information
    • MannyLondon
    • By MannyLondon 17th Nov 19, 7:57 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MannyLondon
    I would like someone to read the rules, look at the officerís response, draw a conclusion in an objective manner.

    Then you need to give that 'someone' the relevant information
    Originally posted by sheramber
    Thanks, yes I am putting a dossier together and follow my councilís compliant procedure. Will report back.
    • missile
    • By missile 18th Nov 19, 8:43 AM
    • 10,340 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    missile
    Thanks, yes I am putting a dossier together and follow my councilís compliant procedure. Will report back.
    Originally posted by MannyLondon
    I would suggest you keep your letter of complaint brief, i.e. concisely state what the issue is and refrain from any speculation.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • warby68
    • By warby68 18th Nov 19, 8:52 AM
    • 1,435 Posts
    • 11,056 Thanks
    warby68
    Thanks, yes I am putting a dossier together and follow my councilís compliant procedure. Will report back.
    Originally posted by MannyLondon
    I'd avoid a 'dossier' and keep it simple in the first instance.

    You just want a higher up second look without being all accusatory to start with. Conspiracy theories and accusations of wrong doing are likely to result in a defensive stance. A simple 'my interpretation of the rules is this. Please can someone overview and advise.'
    • MannyLondon
    • By MannyLondon 18th Nov 19, 10:27 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MannyLondon
    @missile, @warby68

    Thanks, yes I agree, what I meant is that we have started putting together a timeline and dossier (for later use) because there are so many things that went wrong that we had to start putting a document together showing the lack of consistency in the whole thing. Just to name a few: the reasons provided for the refusal are not written in the policy and are pure speculation. After we appealed (with a detailed response, point by point, very factual and objective) the council officer never bothered replying. After 20+ days we chased him by email and he said that he was expecting the ward councillor to reply (!). The council policy states that a response will be provided within 10 days. This is insane as I expect an employee of the council to formally reply and not a councillor. Then the officer suddenly replies (by email) and says that we don’t have the required 2.4m width but there is absolutely nothing in the policy or anywhere that states that a width of 2.4m is required. As of today we still don’t have a formal and intelligible response...

    As you suggested we will keep it objective, nice and punchy in the first instance when formally putting in the compliant following the local council procedure.

    The whole adventure smells so bad that I started thinking that perhaps they simply don’t want to do it or that someone does not want us to have a crossover. We do meet all the criteria though...
    • jimbo6977
    • By jimbo6977 18th Nov 19, 11:24 AM
    • 461 Posts
    • 262 Thanks
    jimbo6977
    Could prove expensive but...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandamus#England_and_Wales
    • MannyLondon
    • By MannyLondon 18th Nov 19, 1:50 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MannyLondon
    How much would the mandamus way be?
    • jimbo6977
    • By jimbo6977 18th Nov 19, 1:56 PM
    • 461 Posts
    • 262 Thanks
    jimbo6977
    How much would the mandamus way be?
    Originally posted by MannyLondon
    Eye-watering. Barristers etc.

    Follow the clowncil's complaints procedure, then go to the omnibus ombudsman if necessary.

    Attempts to obtain mandamus writs are usually the reserve of the swivel-eyed, green-ink brigade.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 18th Nov 19, 3:24 PM
    • 25,024 Posts
    • 14,493 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    I even suspect something really dodgy that might be happening behind the scenes (bribery or some sort of fraud comes to mind). .
    Originally posted by MannyLondon
    The local councillor seemed helpful at first but she kind of disappeared afterwards. Perhaps she discovered something and then radio silence. All very suspicious.
    Originally posted by MannyLondon
    The whole adventure smells so bad that I started thinking that perhaps they simply donít want to do it or that someone does not want us to have a crossover. We do meet all the criteria though...
    Originally posted by MannyLondon
    What possible reason would there be for denying you a crossover other than safety and cost concerns?
    Bribery? Really? Of whom and for what gain?

    I think you need to approach this far more sensibly.
    Throw away any "dossier", forget about legal action and simply make a complaint that you cannot see any reasonable reason the Council have denied your application.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 18th Nov 19, 3:28 PM
    • 12,389 Posts
    • 10,988 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    If this was a planning application, then you can appeal

    https://www.gov.uk/appeal-planning-decision
    • Jumblebumble
    • By Jumblebumble 20th Nov 19, 12:09 PM
    • 461 Posts
    • 175 Thanks
    Jumblebumble
    Thanks a lot, will certainly do that. Very useful. Do they take these things seriously, are they truly impartial?
    Originally posted by MannyLondon
    I have had 2 complaints against my local council
    The first went to the LGO as the council had been messing me about big time
    as soon as the LGO were involved the council rolled over before the LGO had their response
    The second the council rolled over when I did not think they would
    I suspect this is because I was on their list of complainers who are prepared to involve LGO
    Make of this what you will
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 20th Nov 19, 3:42 PM
    • 12,389 Posts
    • 10,988 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    Make of this what you will
    Originally posted by Jumblebumble
    You have a weak minded council.
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