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  • FIRST POST
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 1st Nov 19, 3:06 PM
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    50Twuncle
    Descriptor F (8 points): Cannot prepare and cook food
    • #1
    • 1st Nov 19, 3:06 PM
    Descriptor F (8 points): Cannot prepare and cook food 1st Nov 19 at 3:06 PM
    Descriptor F (8 points): Cannot prepare and cook food

    I am unsteady on my feet - so, whilst I can put a pie in the oven - I would struggle to do anything with it after cooking - I could not carry it to a plate or move the plate afterwards to eat it.

    How would that rate me for points ?
    WW3 is coming - it's been almost 75 years since the last one - the next one will be FAR worse !
    So what's a few squabbles between politicians ??
Page 2
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 3rd Nov 19, 9:22 PM
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    Alice Holt
    I use a perching stool but scored 0 points.
    Originally posted by minimad1970
    If you use a perching stool as a consequence of your disability / illness then 2 points should have been scored.

    However if you use a perching stool out of convenience, 0 points is correct.

    Did you explain the need for an aid (such as a perching stool) on your PIP2 / AR form?
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • minimad1970
    • By minimad1970 3rd Nov 19, 9:31 PM
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    minimad1970
    If you use a perching stool as a consequence of your disability / illness then 2 points should have been scored.

    However if you use a perching stool out of convenience, 0 points is correct.

    Did you explain the need for an aid (such as a perching stool) on your PIP2 / AR form?
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    Yes I explained it was due to disability on my form and at the assessment. I'm waiting for a date for my tribunal, it's only been 4 months so probably still a while to wait. They also ignored the fact that I have to use an electric tablet dispenser and that I can't get in or out of the bath without help. I scored 0 points.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 3rd Nov 19, 9:59 PM
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    Alice Holt
    Yes I explained it was due to disability on my form and at the assessment. I'm waiting for a date for my tribunal, it's only been 4 months so probably still a while to wait. They also ignored the fact that I have to use an electric tablet dispenser and that I can't get in or out of the bath without help. I scored 0 points.
    Originally posted by minimad1970
    Then put that on your submission to the tribunal.

    The tablet dispenser (as an aid) is 1 point.

    Needing help to get in / out of the bath is potentially 3 points.

    If you scored 0 points and all the above points are awarded at tribunal, where are the additional 2 points to get you up to 8 points and a standard DL award?

    Dressing and undressing?
    Needing a rail to get on / off the toilet safely?
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 03-11-2019 at 10:02 PM.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • minimad1970
    • By minimad1970 3rd Nov 19, 10:06 PM
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    minimad1970
    Thanks Alice. In theory I should score 4 points in the Engaging with other people face to face section.
    • minimad1970
    • By minimad1970 3rd Nov 19, 10:09 PM
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    minimad1970
    Needing a rail to get on / off the toilet safely?
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    I haven't got a rail but the toilet is right next to the bath and I use the handle on there to get up.

    Sorry 50Twuncle for hijacking your thread
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 3rd Nov 19, 10:50 PM
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    poppy12345
    Yes I explained it was due to disability on my form and at the assessment. I'm waiting for a date for my tribunal, it's only been 4 months so probably still a while to wait. They also ignored the fact that I have to use an electric tablet dispenser and that I can't get in or out of the bath without help. I scored 0 points.
    Originally posted by minimad1970
    If you need assistance to get in and out of the bath then you need to explain why an aid would not be any help to you here. Telling them you need assistance is not enough.



    You need to tell them what happened the last time you attempted that activity using an aid. If they think you can complete the activity with an aid, then you'll score points for this and not for needing assistance.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 4th Nov 19, 8:17 AM
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    GlasweJen
    This^^^


    My son cannot cook at all. He has a severe learning disability and also physical disabilities. He cannot open some packaging or use a tin opener, follow a recipe, use a timer (or tell the time), identify whether food is properly cooked, lift a pan or a kettle, chop veg safely, etc.



    He didn't score the full eight points for this descriptor.
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    I'm sorry but that's disgusting! I did score all 8 for this because of my seizures on my first go at PIP, second time round I scored 8 at assessment but at MR had points from this descriptor reduced on the basis of I could close lids tightly (someone obviously doesn't know how microwaves work) and I couldn't be bothered arguing as I'd got my standard daily living back via points elsewhere.
    Bounts, Quidco, Shop and Scan, Receipt Hog, Costco Cashback, Debit card cashback

    NOT BUYING IT
    (unless it's on offer and can get my loyalty points)
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 4th Nov 19, 1:27 PM
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    • 2,630 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    How about :

    Daily Living
    1) Perching stool for washing / Shower Seat
    As an aid for washing (2 points)

    2) Long handled Shoe horn for getting shoes on
    As a dressing aid (2 points)

    3) Shoes with Velcro fastenings 6B
    I can’t handle shoelace knots.

    4) Washbasin grab for getting on/off toilet and into /out of the bath for showering
    Used as a grab rail for safety (2 points)

    5) Computer/laptop/tablet/phone for communications
    Because my speech is virtually non-existent, especially when stressed
    These allow me to interact with the outside world

    6) Wife to prompt gaps in communications / social engagement 7c
    Helping to prompt (2 points)

    7) Pill reminder box for Codeine, Atenolol, Loperamide and Tamsulosin.
    Poor memory – will forget otherwise

    8) Rubber shower / bath mat.
    I did fall once without it !

    9) Long handled sponge
    For reaching parts of my body that a more able person could wash with no difficulty

    Mobility
    Wheelchair
    Used for going out ANYWHERE – Pushed by my wife

    Mobility Scooter
    Used outdoors for all distances that my wife should not be expected to push me
    WW3 is coming - it's been almost 75 years since the last one - the next one will be FAR worse !
    So what's a few squabbles between politicians ??
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 4th Nov 19, 2:38 PM
    • 9,768 Posts
    • 2,630 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    Has anyone got the latest stats of the number of PIP claimants found to be entitled to 12 points mobility
    because, from what I can make of the rules - it is virtually impossible

    I, for example - cannot truthfully say that I cannot walk/crawl 20metres, 20 metres is pointless - who set this distance ?
    It should be 100 metres !
    The "Planning and following journeys" bit is even worse - it asks whether a claimant is able to follow instructions - rather than mobilise themselves !
    WW3 is coming - it's been almost 75 years since the last one - the next one will be FAR worse !
    So what's a few squabbles between politicians ??
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 4th Nov 19, 3:31 PM
    • 9,768 Posts
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    50Twuncle
    I think that I can answer that myself :

    Currently, the Motability scheme has more than 650,000 customers - and assuming that half of those entitled to max mobility - use it for a car - that means that roughly 1 million PIP claimants receive 12 points on mobility
    THAT IS ASTONISHING !
    WW3 is coming - it's been almost 75 years since the last one - the next one will be FAR worse !
    So what's a few squabbles between politicians ??
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 4th Nov 19, 3:55 PM
    • 9,768 Posts
    • 2,630 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    I have found a "specimen PIP1 form" at :


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/713113/pip1-claim-form.pdf

    This appears to be lacking any questions on ability to do "ANYTHING" - What is a PIP 1 form supposed to be for ?
    Last edited by 50Twuncle; 04-11-2019 at 3:57 PM.
    WW3 is coming - it's been almost 75 years since the last one - the next one will be FAR worse !
    So what's a few squabbles between politicians ??
    • Spoonie Turtle
    • By Spoonie Turtle 4th Nov 19, 4:36 PM
    • 311 Posts
    • 199 Thanks
    Spoonie Turtle

    I, for example - cannot truthfully say that I cannot walk/crawl 20metres, 20 metres is pointless - who set this distance ?
    It should be 100 metres !
    The "Planning and following journeys" bit is even worse - it asks whether a claimant is able to follow instructions - rather than mobilise themselves !
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    It's not a case of 'can you?'
    It's a case of 'can you do this reliably, repeatedly (within a reasonable timescale and as often as you need to), safely, to an acceptable standard, and within a reasonable time (i.e. less than twice the time it would take a non-disabled person to do it)?' I think one of your previous threads already discussed this but I can't remember which one exactly.

    Btw, crawling does not count.
    This includes the ability to stand and then move ...
    ‘Standing’ means to stand upright with at least one biological foot on the ground with or without suitable aids and appliances ...

    ‘Stand and then move’ requires an individual to stand and then move independently while remaining standing. ...

    ... The reliability criteria should be applied when assessing what distances the claimant can achieve.

    Aids or appliances that a person uses to support their physical mobility may include walking sticks, crutches and prostheses.

    When assessing whether the activity can be carried out reliably, consideration should be given to the manner in which the activity is completed. This includes, but is not limited to, the claimant’s gait, their speed, the risk of falls and symptoms or side effects that could affect their ability to complete the activity, such as pain, breathlessness and fatigue.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

    Planning and following journeys is a vital, separate part of mobility. If you have zero physical problems walking but don't know how to get yourself anywhere, you'd need someone always with you to make sure you get to wherever you need, and to keep you safe (a lost person is more vulnerable than someone who knows where they are; add in the condition/s causing them to not know where you are and that person cannot be said to be safe). It's about cognitive ability, which is why it's separate from the physical part of the mobility section.

    EDIT to add:
    I have found a "specimen PIP1 form" at :


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/713113/pip1-claim-form.pdf

    This appears to be lacking any questions on ability to do "ANYTHING" - What is a PIP 1 form supposed to be for ?
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    (The link didn't work for me, just FYI - could just be my tablet, or it may not work for others either.)
    The PIP1 form is the initial claim form, which you only fill out if you can't start the claim over the phone.
    The one they send out afterwards is the PIP2, which is about how your conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities.
    Last edited by Spoonie Turtle; 04-11-2019 at 4:39 PM.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 4th Nov 19, 7:52 PM
    • 3,498 Posts
    • 4,058 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    I haven't got a rail but the toilet is right next to the bath and I use the handle on there to get up.
    Originally posted by minimad1970
    That to me could demonstrate the need for a rail.
    I would include that in the submission and see what the tribunal decide on that activity.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • venison
    • By venison 4th Nov 19, 10:14 PM
    • 4,012 Posts
    • 5,746 Thanks
    venison
    I think that I can answer that myself :

    Currently, the Motability scheme has more than 650,000 customers - and assuming that half of those entitled to max mobility - use it for a car - that means that roughly 1 million PIP claimants receive 12 points on mobility
    THAT IS ASTONISHING !
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    as of april 2018 1.7 million people were receiving PIP at some level and there were still a lot of people to be transferred over from DLA at that point.
    Dont blame me I voted Labour
    • Spoonie Turtle
    • By Spoonie Turtle 4th Nov 19, 10:19 PM
    • 311 Posts
    • 199 Thanks
    Spoonie Turtle
    That to me could demonstrate the need for a rail.
    I would include that in the submission and see what the tribunal decide on that activity.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    It counts as an aid if it's an ordinary item but used in a different way from its intended purpose, a way in which someone without a condition/disability wouldn't need to use it. It's somewhere in the guidance or definitions; I'll come back if I can find it.

    Minimad1970 You would need to explain that you use it out of need, not out of preference though. If you could get off the toilet okay without it, just maybe taking slightly longer, they probably won't count it. But if you can't safely/reliably get up without some kind of rail (in this case, the handle on the bath) then it does count. They should decide accordingly.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 4th Nov 19, 10:25 PM
    • 6,261 Posts
    • 5,780 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Has anyone got the latest stats of the number of PIP claimants found to be entitled to 12 points mobility
    because, from what I can make of the rules - it is virtually impossible

    I, for example - cannot truthfully say that I cannot walk/crawl 20metres, 20 metres is pointless - who set this distance ?
    It should be 100 metres !
    The "Planning and following journeys" bit is even worse - it asks whether a claimant is able to follow instructions - rather than mobilise themselves !
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle
    It's not virtually impossible to be awarded Enhanced mobility. I claim it for moving around and my daughter claims it for following and planning a journey. I also know of quite a lot of others that claim it too.



    Did you actually read the link i posted above? It will benefit you if you did read it because based on some of what you've said you could use a better understanding of what the descriptors mean. This will certainly help when the time eventually comes for you to have to apply.
    Last edited by poppy12345; 04-11-2019 at 10:32 PM.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 5th Nov 19, 7:52 AM
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    • 2,630 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    as of april 2018 1.7 million people were receiving PIP at some level and there were still a lot of people to be transferred over from DLA at that point.
    Originally posted by venison

    Have you any idea how many have been "done" and how many still to "do" ?
    WW3 is coming - it's been almost 75 years since the last one - the next one will be FAR worse !
    So what's a few squabbles between politicians ??
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 5th Nov 19, 10:30 AM
    • 7,283 Posts
    • 8,134 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    Have you any idea how many have been "done" and how many still to "do" ?
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle

    according to

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2019/dwp-benefits-statistical-summary-august-2019
    'There were 2.1 million people claiming PIP at February 2019, and 1.7 million people claiming DLA. The number of people claiming PIP rose by 350,000 during the past year, and over the same period, DLA claims fell by 290,000. There were 3.8 million combined claimants at February 2019, an increase of 65,000.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 5th Nov 19, 8:40 PM
    • 8,599 Posts
    • 18,613 Thanks
    kingfisherblue
    Has anyone got the latest stats of the number of PIP claimants found to be entitled to 12 points mobility
    because, from what I can make of the rules - it is virtually impossible


    I, for example - cannot truthfully say that I cannot walk/crawl 20metres, 20 metres is pointless - who set this distance ?
    It should be 100 metres !
    The "Planning and following journeys" bit is even worse - it asks whether a claimant is able to follow instructions - rather than mobilise themselves !
    Originally posted by 50Twuncle

    It's not virtually impossible at all. My son scored 22 points for this component. He scored 12 points for being unable to plan or follow a journey, or go out alone (I can't remember the exact wording of the descriptor), and ten points for mobilising - although I think that he should have been awarded twelve points for this part, as he cannot walk without pain, cannot walk repeatedly, cannot walk safely (his breathing becomes compromised very quickly, and he has constant pain in his legs due to hypermobility), and cannot walk in a timely manner. However, with enhanced on both components for ten years, I wasn't going to argue!


    The planning and following a journey part was, I believe, introduced to include people with learning disabilities, dementia, and similar conditions. For someone like my son, it is impossible to go out alone. Leaving aside the fact that he is a wheelchair user, he cannot find his way to my mum's house in the next street, even though he has lived in the same house all his life (he's 21), and my mum still lives in my childhood home. He only has to turn right, follow the road to the end, and turn left, but it is beyond his capabilities.


    I know of several other people who have been awarded 12+ points for the mobility component, so it definitely isn't impossible. I think that the amount of people with Motability cars shows that a largge number of people are awarded.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 5th Nov 19, 11:12 PM
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    poppy12345
    I think the OP only reads what he wants to read.... has most likely not read the link i posted in a previous comment.
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