M25 speeding

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  • photome
    photome Posts: 16,350
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    Car_54 wrote: »
    Can you provide a source for that "fact"?

    article from local paper in 2016

    Police do not currently enforce 20mph speed limits in Norfolk.
  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,179
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    photome wrote: »
    article from local paper in 2016

    Police do not currently enforce 20mph speed limits in Norfolk.

    The discussion (over a month ago now) arose from a statement that any limit under 20 mph limit was unenforceable, and a request for evidence of that "fact".

    "Not enforced" is not "unenforceable". Rather in the way that I am allowed to run in the London Marathon, buy choose not to.
  • Car_54 wrote: »
    The discussion (over a month ago now) arose from a statement that any limit under 20 mph limit was unenforceable, and a request for evidence of that "fact".

    "Not enforced" is not "unenforceable". Rather in the way that I am allowed to run in the London Marathon, buy choose not to.

    But it wasn't under 20 was it?
  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,179
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    But it wasn't under 20 was it?

    You're right, the first suggestion was that "The minimum enforceable speed limit is 30 mph."

    Then someone said "It's actually 20 mph".

    AFAIK no-one has yet provided any substantiation for either statement.
  • Yeah, you are in deep trouble here. I cant see a way out of it....
  • On Pepipoo I recently queried if 20 MPH was enforceable using HADECS, someone came up with the official type approval. Limits below 30 are not enforceable by RADAR based devices (except HADECS apparently) but other means of speed detection (average etc.) are OK.
  • IanMSpencer
    IanMSpencer Posts: 1,517
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    We had discussions with the police over 20mph limits when they were to be implemented locally.

    The police position was that they do not have the resources to routinely enforce such limits, and the guidelines are such that any 20mph limit should be "enforced" by road design. So in the case we had, this reduced a previously dual carriageway 30mph road though a village centre to a single carriageway with right turn bay, and the divided lanes were narrowed, but with a low lip which does allow the use of an unmarked centre island to avoid parked cars for example, and a particularly vicious speed hump just before a difficult to sight zebra crossing which is just about impossible to top 20mph without bottoming the car. It has achieved a significant decrease in the maximum speeds which topped 60mph.

    So as a matter of resourcing, local councils are told that 20mph will not be routinely enforced by the police. That is not to say that the police will not enforce if there is a particular issue, much as they will not routinely enforce speed limits around and about unless there is evidence of a particular issue.

    At a park, there was a 10mph limit imposed on the access road, and I was told by the officer that it was unenforceable, and I think that was related to case law. I wonder if the case law went back to the days when speedos sometimes didn't register below 10mph. However, the police are not the arbiters of what can actually be enforced in the courts, but if they will not attempt to enforce, then it amounts to the same thing.
  • No, the minimum is 20mph as the original poster saw.
  • Car_54 wrote: »
    Can you provide a source for that "fact"?
    20mph Zones are non-enforceable and rely on road design (traffic calming, etc) to encourage/force drivers to slow down.

    20mph Authorised Speed Limits established by the relevant traffic orders and signed with the correct signs with a red border are, like any other speed limit fully enforceable.

    The 20mph limit now appears in the table for speed limit enforcement: http://www.roadlawbarristers.co.uk/2016/08/speeding-what-is-the-10-plus-2-rule-and-what-does-it-mean/
  • ElefantEd
    ElefantEd Posts: 1,186
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    Edinburgh is in the process of rolling out 20mph speed limits across much of the city. According to their website
    "Myth 5: 20mph speed limits won't be enforced
    The legal speed limits on any roads in the Capital are enforced by Police Scotland and this will be no different whether the street is 20, 30 or 40mph. Police will direct their resources to particular problem areas, as they do currently, and drivers caught flouting the limit will face warnings or speeding fines. Additional measures such as Vehicle Activated Signs could also be installed in streets where particularly high numbers of contraventions are detected or reported. "


    In practice these may or may not be monitored, but they are certainly enforceable in theory. Same with the M25 temporary speed limits.
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