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Indigo PN rejection but no popla code
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I fail to see how indigo can get info from the DVLA , on what grounds? , and would be tempted to ask the DVLA by which method they used , and REASON for applying for dataSave a Rachael
buy a share in crapita0 -
Sorry for the delay in replying but thanks to all who gave advice or comments - it’s greatly appreciated.
Re Indigo getting keeper data from the DVLA - I’ve never quite understood this, but why do they need to as the keeper appealed so they already know the details?
I will check though with the DVLA if they obtained details and the reason.
Also, the PN was for “failure to display” (paid by phone but unbeknown to the driver after PN was issued. Driver had checked signage to see how long they had to pay by phone and couldn’t see anything. On scrutinising the signs at a later date, this information was found on a sign 8 feet up a pole behind parked cars, in 3mm high text -took a tape measure!).
But failure to display is not a byelaw offence and the driver could not reasonably be expected to see (let alone read) the particular T&C’s that led to the PN? ...Not sure what the TOC would be able to prosecute for? - even if they wanted to...0 -
exactly the reason why we dont believe INDIGO have the authority , no bylaw was broken , INDIGO dont have any valid reason to contact the DVLA and only the owner can be taken to MAG court due to bylaws in effect and only the TOC can deal with that issue, not INDIGO
as we said, the DfT have not resolved these issues and its been going on for many years
the BPA have washed their hands of it and INDIGO have not got a clue about how to manage this fiasco, neither have VCS or APCOA or CARE PARKING when it comes to bylaw issues
this is why you do your queries but let the 6 months time out from the MAG COURT point of view (not that the TOC will do anything anyway)
until the DfT or the government sort it out, these problems and questions will remain, so dont beat yourself up about it because you wont be the one to fix it
if you get an LBC , a summons , or an MCOL, come back
and report back on what the DVLA say too0 -
Will do - and thanks again0
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"Failure to display" is indeed a Byelaw offence if the signage says that you must display a valid permit or have paid for a mobile parking session. Byelaw 14.2(ii) states that you have to abide by what the signs say.
Only the driver could be legally liable for a Byelaw breach. The owner and the keeper could not be found guilty by a Magistrate's Court of a breach of Byelaws caused when someone else was driving. Byelaws 14.1, 14.2 and 14.3 refer to the "person in charge", which means the driver only.
Indigo has now introduced wheel clamping, ANPR and persuaded the BPA to allow them to suspend the POPLA appeal process. All this has happened very quickly over the last few weeks. This is outrageous.
Let's assume you get a windscreen ticket at a station car park managed by Indigo. You appeal to Indigo, they reject your appeal of course. You now have nowhere else to turn. Unless you pay the penalty, Indigo may well apply a wheel clamp at some point in future because they have a record of your non payment and station car parks tend to be used multiple times per week by each driver. They will not bother going to a Magistrate's Court, because they will get no financial benefit. Why do that, when they can screw £200+ out of you by using a wheel clamp?
Let's say you ignore the windscreen ticket. Indigo will get the keeper details from the DVLA and send out a Notice to Keeper letter. By the time this arrives, Indigo will say that it's too late to appeal to them. But they would reject this appeal anyway. As above, if no-one pays up then it's likely the car will be clamped when it is again in the car park.
How to fight this? You could buy an angle grinder and keep it in your boot. Or you could pay the clamp release fees and then sue them in the small claims court, using the following arguments:
(1) Indigo Park Solutions UK Ltd has no written authorisation from Govia Thameslink Railway to manage any of GTR's station car parks. All their tickets and clamps are therefore fraudulent.
(2) The Byelaws state that clamping can only be used when a Byelaw has been breached, not when there is only an alleged breach. Only a Magistrate's Court can prove that a Byelaw breach has actually taken place.
(3) Clamping on private land was made illegal by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, unless the clamper has "lawful authority". So does Byelaw 14.4.(ii) provide this authority? No it does not. The Byelaws rely on section 219 of the Transport At 2000 as their enabling legislation. Nowhere in this Act does it mention power to create Byelaws relating to clamping. The fact that 14.4(ii) exists is due to it having been written in 2005, when clamping was allowed by virtue of the then existing common law. POFA2012 changed all that and there has been no further enabling legislation since then which would make clamping in station car parks lawful.
(4) Railway Byelaws make no mention of the car park operator being able to charge a clamp release fee.
(5) Since Indigo Park Solutions UK Ltd have no written authority to manage any of the GTR station car parks, they can have no "reasonable cause" to request your personal data from the DVLA. Doing that would be a breach of the Data Protection Act. Recent examples of damages for DPA breaches, awarded in the small claims track, run to about £750 per incident.
Happy parking.0 -
Thank you for this...Indigo have recently put wheel clamping signs up in the station car park, and I haven’t parked there since, thinking they might clamp the car for the unpaid penalty. Seems I was right to be cautious then.0
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Aftertherain wrote: »Thank you for this...Indigo have recently put wheel clamping signs up in the station car park, and I haven’t parked there since, thinking they might clamp the car for the unpaid penalty. Seems I was right to be cautious then.
but have they the authority to clamp ?
last time I checked , 99% of (private) SIA clamping licences had expired and the course was no longer available ,
a fine line between a TOC employee and a BPA registered company
and lets not forget , failure to display a ticket is not and never will be a valid TOC clamping point ,NCP , are you still there ,???Save a Rachael
buy a share in crapita0 -
long read , but worth it for the figure involved , post POFA2012 action http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=64994Save a Rachael
buy a share in crapita0 -
Hi All, just to update this thread with responses from BPA and dvla.
BPA have said “I can confirm if the charge remains unpaid, Indigo can refer the matter to a magistrates court where you can contest the matter further”.
Re no POPLA being offered, I’ve been researching a bit and I think POPLA was set up for appeals on relevant land. (Happy to be corrected if I’m mistaken there?).
Dvla have come back saying essentially that. As railway land is covered by Byelaws POPLA may not apply. They’ve suggested a government department I can complain to and I will do so - this feels like a real mess!
We are now at “ignore the debt collector letters” stage.0 -
it is a mess that the DCLG and the government etc have failed to sort out
POPLA still applies on some non-relevant land , like airports and ports etc
they all seem to have washed their hands on the railway issues
but the MAGS court comment is correct and always was correct
its a dogs breakfast thats for sure0
This discussion has been closed.
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