Gladstones Claim Form - is contesting worth the risk?

BonzoGonzales · 18 March 2019 at 9:55PM

1: If the GF went off with the permit, does that mean that she had a car, parking on site as well

She did park there

2: If the lease clearly states that your son has a parking space, when he signed the lease, did it say a permit had to be displayed.
Or was this permit saga after that when the PPC was installed

The lease stated he had an 'allocated spac'e but did not make any mention of a permit.
The permit system was already in place when his lease started

3: You say he did not receive a LBC ...... what communication did he receive, what about debt collector letters

I'll check with him - I don't think he's received a LBC. He's since moved out of the flat.

4: Does the claim form really say " 'agreed to pay the PCN within 28 days' ??? Any signs display an amount for £100 and a discount if paid with 14 days

The sign says 'Parking charges are to be paid within 28 days' and yes the claim form does say 'agreed to pay the PCN within 28 days.

BonzoGonzales · 29 March 2019 at 10:24AM

Hi Beamerguy
If the sign was present when the tenancy started does that invalidate the primacy of contract argument? The sign did predate the tenancy. The tenancy agreement did not specify that a permit was required.

I'm not sure we have much of defence otherwise - there was a sign, he parked without a permit.

However it seems wrong to be 'charged' to park in the space allocated as part of a tenancy contract (i.e. paying rent includes for the parking space). Clearly parking there would not therefore deprive any party of income.

D_P_Dance · 29 March 2019 at 10:31AM

he refused to pay as he thought he was entitled to park in his allocated space by dint of his tenancy agreement.

He probably is, read up on Primacy of Contract.

Also read this

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

and complain to your MP, these scammers have no place in residential car parks.
Complain to your MP. On 18th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

BonzoGonzales · 29 March 2019 at 1:13PM

Thanks for the response.
I have looked at that blog but the primacy of contract argument seems to hinge on the parking sign 'contract' coming into force after the tenancy agreement.

The forbidding sign argument seems void also, as the sign is titled 'parking conditions'.

Galling as it would be, are there options to pay the amount without going to court even though we opted to defend the case?

Will look into contacting our MP - it is an outrageous scam.

Coupon-mad · 30 March 2019 at 11:17PM

I have looked at that blog but the primacy of contract argument seems to hinge on the parking sign 'contract' coming into force after the tenancy agreement.

Doesn't matter. You are entitled to rely on your tenancy agreement.

The forbidding sign argument seems void also, as the sign is titled 'parking conditions'.

That doesn't make the forbidding sign argument void?

Galling as it would be, are there options to pay the amount without going to court even though we opted to defend the case?

Why would you pay £247, being about a hundred pounds MORE than the likely sum that a Judge would award, if you were one of the very few here, who lose at a hearing? Even if you lost you'd pay about £150 odd, as the £60/£50 add-ons are made up from thin air.

I did say earlier:

a residential case can be defended...it is literally all over the forum.

You'd be mad to pay a silly amount to avoid the 1% chance of losing and paying less.

BonzoGonzales · 31 March 2019 at 12:38PM

You're right and frankly we will defend it just out of bloody-minded principle if nothing else.

The link to the defence for an 'own space' residential site, by Johnersh (pointed to in the newbies thread) is more or less spot on I think.

One question though- when the defence says something like 'the Defendant will rely upon [some case law]' is there an obligation to have that judgement to hand on the day and to be able to quote from it? Or is the reference in the document enough?

Umkomaas · 31 March 2019 at 1:48PM

One question though- when the defence says something like 'the Defendant will rely upon [some case law]' is there an obligation to have that judgement to hand on the day and to be able to quote from it? Or is the reference in the document enough?

Yes, place it as evidence as part of your Witness Statement. A Judge won’t know the details of any and every past court judgment - particularly the mass chucked at him by people simply copying and pasting from the internet, with no clue themselves what any of it means or how it applies to their case.

Where the case has many pages, print extracts, but it does mean you will need to understand the case and which are the relevant parts to quote.

BonzoGonzales · 31 March 2019 at 7:35PM

The defence has to be submitted by 4pm tomorrow - and I'm just reviewing what I have (before I submit by email).

The residents' defence I am largely using as a template has one section which states that :

It is denied that the Defendant was the driver of the vehicle. The Claimant is put to strict proof.

My son was the driver at the time, but there were 2 named drivers on the insurance.
Should I remove this section given that it would be untruthful for my son to say in court that he was not the driver at the time?

Coupon-mad · 31 March 2019 at 7:37PM

Absolutely yes, remove the denial.

BonzoGonzales · 11 June 2019 at 10:34PM

Things have progressed and we have a court hearing in September and have to submit the WS by the 20th of this month.

As per the comment above I need to add the relevant extracts from the case law that I referenced in my defence statement - I read on a thread somewhere that Parking Prankster (I think) had the relevant texts from the cases listed. But I can't find that link. Does anyone have that link?

Thanks
Matt

Gladstones Claim Form - is contesting worth the risk?

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