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  • FIRST POST
    • bflare
    • By bflare 14th Oct 19, 2:20 PM
    • 313Posts
    • 153Thanks
    bflare
    Paying child maintenance when I have my Son 6 nights
    • #1
    • 14th Oct 19, 2:20 PM
    Paying child maintenance when I have my Son 6 nights 14th Oct 19 at 2:20 PM
    Due to welfare concerns of my 12 year old Son & what he says he wants I now have my Son stay over with me for 6 nights per week. His mother has moved in a man who is on a methadone treatment plan. She is also heavily in debt or spending money on things that she shouldn't be. For 7 years I have been paying all her bills as part of a private child maintenance arrangement. This arrangement was based on me only having my son stay 1 night per week. Over the years due to various reasons the rate of me having him has risen to the 6 nights but I have kept the payments the same.


    A couple of months ago I said I will be reducing the payments due to our Son been at my home more. She wasn't pleased & said that she wouldn't be able to afford to live & would have to downsize from a 3 bed to a 2 due to bedroom tax & me reducing the payments.


    I did the online calculation on the .gov website but it stops at over 3 nights so there is no option for 6 nights. So basically I will be paying my ex £146 a month for my son staying there one night per week & 5 hours during the day on a Sunday plus she is receiving child allowance for him. I am also paying for other things such as haircuts, clothes etc. She receives universal tax credit, housing benefit, council tax reduction & she still asks me to borrow her money. She now has this guy live with her who doesn't work due to a broken hip. So he is receiving benefits & I highly doubt that they have made a joint claim.


    Surely I should not have to pay the same rate that the .gov website says for 3 days or more when his mother only has him stay over 1 night plus she receives child allowance for him?
Page 1
    • kathrynha
    • By kathrynha 14th Oct 19, 2:25 PM
    • 2,399 Posts
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    kathrynha
    • #2
    • 14th Oct 19, 2:25 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Oct 19, 2:25 PM
    You shouldn't be paying anything. If you have him 6 nights a week she should be paying you maintenance. Also you should be getting the child benefit.
    Zebras rock
    • bflare
    • By bflare 14th Oct 19, 2:49 PM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    • #3
    • 14th Oct 19, 2:49 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Oct 19, 2:49 PM
    You shouldn't be paying anything. If you have him 6 nights a week she should be paying you maintenance. Also you should be getting the child benefit.
    Originally posted by kathrynha

    Is this because I would be classed as the main carer?
    • kathrynha
    • By kathrynha 14th Oct 19, 3:01 PM
    • 2,399 Posts
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    kathrynha
    • #4
    • 14th Oct 19, 3:01 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Oct 19, 3:01 PM
    Is this because I would be classed as the main carer?
    Originally posted by bflare
    Yep. That's why the website only goes up to 3 days, then you become joint, but at 6 days definitely main carer.
    Also not your responsibility to support her, just your son.
    Zebras rock
    • swingaloo
    • By swingaloo 14th Oct 19, 4:23 PM
    • 2,150 Posts
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    swingaloo
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:23 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:23 PM
    I thought your post was familiar to something I had read on here so looked at your other posts.

    In view of what you had suspected your ex was doing and the involvement of social services I think you should stop giving her any money as she is involved with drugs. Cant social services help you to make it official that your son now lives with you then you can leave her and her addict boyfriend to fend for themselves. As the other poster said, you should also be getting the child benefit as you are the main carer.

    Please don't let her talk you into letting her have your son back with her.
    Last edited by swingaloo; 14-10-2019 at 4:24 PM. Reason: spelling error
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 14th Oct 19, 4:24 PM
    • 7,151 Posts
    • 5,416 Thanks
    sheramber
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:24 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:24 PM
    https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit/eligibility

    Only one person can get Child Benefit for a child.

    You normally qualify for Child Benefit if you’re responsible for a child under 16 (or under 20 if they stay in approved education or training) and you live in the UK.

    You’ll usually be responsible for a child if you live with them or you’re paying at least the same amount as Child Benefit (or the equivalent in kind) towards looking after them, for example on food, clothes or pocket money.
    • bflare
    • By bflare 14th Oct 19, 4:39 PM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:39 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:39 PM
    I thought your post was familiar to something I had read on here so looked at your other posts.

    In view of what you had suspected your ex was doing and the involvement of social services I think you should stop giving her any money as she is involved with drugs. Cant social services help you to make it official that your son now lives with you then you can leave her and her addict boyfriend to fend for themselves. As the other poster said, you should also be getting the child benefit as you are the main carer.

    Please don't let her talk you into letting her have your son back with her.
    Originally posted by swingaloo

    When I spoke to social services they said they were putting me down as the main carer but I have nothing official or in writing.


    She is making no effort to change her behaviour. She said she was going to have her boyfriend move out. This has not happened in fact they are moving to a smaller house together. She had every opportunity to tell her boyfriend to leave when social services got involved but she didn't.


    My Son's PlayStation 4 went missing at the weekend. Apparently his mum borrowed it to her boyfriends sister who is unwell & I have been promised it back tonight. I do not believe her & I think it has been in Cash converters or something. She is a pathological liar.


    I get the feeling my son wants to live with me full time to be honest. He has seen his mum put her boyfriend before him. How heart breaking this must be for him.
    • gizmo111
    • By gizmo111 14th Oct 19, 4:43 PM
    • 2,281 Posts
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    gizmo111
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:43 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:43 PM
    Easiest thing to do is apply to the family court for a child arrangement order setting out where he lives and how often he sees the other parent and under what circumstances - eg does mum see him supervised now or does he just go to hers one night a week? If it is the latter then he is still at risk on that one night even though he doesn't live there as such.
    Mama read so much about the dangers of drinking alcohol and eating chocolate that she immediately gave up reading.
    • bflare
    • By bflare 14th Oct 19, 4:54 PM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:54 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 19, 4:54 PM
    Easiest thing to do is apply to the family court for a child arrangement order setting out where he lives and how often he sees the other parent and under what circumstances - eg does mum see him supervised now or does he just go to hers one night a week? If it is the latter then he is still at risk on that one night even though he doesn't live there as such.
    Originally posted by gizmo111

    I think to apply for a child arrangement order through the court they first require you to go through mediation which she has already refused to do.
    • Ms Chocaholic
    • By Ms Chocaholic 14th Oct 19, 4:58 PM
    • 10,735 Posts
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    Ms Chocaholic
    IMHO I wouldn't apply for a CAO, if the mum is happy for your son to be living with you then it seems a waste of money, also at the age of 12 his mum couldn't force him to return home if he preferred to stay with you.

    Why does he stay at his mum's for one night per week though, why don't you have him full-time or is that considered contact.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till The End

    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
    • bflare
    • By bflare 14th Oct 19, 5:06 PM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    IMHO I wouldn't apply for a CAO, if the mum is happy for your son to be living with you then it seems a waste of money, also at the age of 12 his mum couldn't force him to return home if he preferred to stay with you.

    Why does he stay at his mum's for one night per week though, why don't you have him full-time or is that considered contact.
    Originally posted by Ms Chocaholic

    I agree. At the moment she is not causing much fuss. She was upset but I explained that it is what my son wants & as a father it is my duty to support him. I also said that I am unwilling to have my son around basically a stranger who is on a methadone treatment plan. Her answer to this is that her isn't on heroin it's methadone. I tried explaining that it is still heroin & he could relapse at any time. She wouldn't accept this.


    I think she is more bothered about the reduction in child maintenance from me to be honest.


    He stays with his mum one night mainly out of empathy for his mum I think. Plus to see his friends. However, I think he is getting to the point where he will want to live with me full time. All I am waiting for is for him to say this & then I shall be breaking the news to her & stopping all maintenance.
    • Ms Chocaholic
    • By Ms Chocaholic 14th Oct 19, 5:10 PM
    • 10,735 Posts
    • 65,378 Thanks
    Ms Chocaholic
    It will only be when you stop the maintenance that she will want him back.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till The End

    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
    • bflare
    • By bflare 14th Oct 19, 5:14 PM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    It will only be when you stop the maintenance that she will want him back.
    Originally posted by Ms Chocaholic

    Oh yes I can believe that. She complained when I reduced it last time in line with the duration that I had him stay saying that she wouldn't be able to afford to live. Completely missing the point what child maintenance is for & if he is not there then she shouldn't need the money. This tells me that my son was basically neglected & if it wasn't for me then god knows how he would of been clothed etc.
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 15th Oct 19, 10:00 AM
    • 5,545 Posts
    • 5,663 Thanks
    poppasmurf_bewdley
    Due to welfare concerns of my 12 year old Son & what he says he wants I now have my Son stay over with me for 6 nights per week. His mother has moved in a man who is on a methadone treatment plan. She is also heavily in debt or spending money on things that she shouldn't be. For 7 years I have been paying all her bills as part of a private child maintenance arrangement. This arrangement was based on me only having my son stay 1 night per week. Over the years due to various reasons the rate of me having him has risen to the 6 nights but I have kept the payments the same.


    A couple of months ago I said I will be reducing the payments due to our Son been at my home more. She wasn't pleased & said that she wouldn't be able to afford to live & would have to downsize from a 3 bed to a 2 due to bedroom tax & me reducing the payments.


    I did the online calculation on the .gov website but it stops at over 3 nights so there is no option for 6 nights. So basically I will be paying my ex £146 a month for my son staying there one night per week & 5 hours during the day on a Sunday plus she is receiving child allowance for him. I am also paying for other things such as haircuts, clothes etc. She receives universal tax credit, housing benefit, council tax reduction & she still asks me to borrow her money. She now has this guy live with her who doesn't work due to a broken hip. So he is receiving benefits & I highly doubt that they have made a joint claim.


    Surely I should not have to pay the same rate that the .gov website says for 3 days or more when his mother only has him stay over 1 night plus she receives child allowance for him?
    Originally posted by bflare
    Twenty years ago, I was in almost exactly the same position as you are now.

    I had my two kids, then 13 and 10, staying with me at least half the time but I was paying my ex through the nose via the Child Support Agency. Fortunately, I had kept a detailed diary of exactly what nights they had stayed with me, and I won my case that I should pay nothing as I had them on an equal footing with the ex.

    Then my son moved in with me, followed by my daughter, when the ex took a partner neither of the kids liked. She was getting the child benefit, and fought like hell to stop me getting it but I did eventually after changing the kids address at school for my own.

    I was then able to claim Child and Family Tax Credits.

    You have to keep at it, and you will win.
    "There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe a 'Princess Coronation' locomotive in full cry. We shall never see their like again". O S Nock
    • bflare
    • By bflare 15th Oct 19, 10:29 AM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    Twenty years ago, I was in almost exactly the same position as you are now.

    I had my two kids, then 13 and 10, staying with me at least half the time but I was paying my ex through the nose via the Child Support Agency. Fortunately, I had kept a detailed diary of exactly what nights they had stayed with me, and I won my case that I should pay nothing as I had them on an equal footing with the ex.

    Then my son moved in with me, followed by my daughter, when the ex took a partner neither of the kids liked. She was getting the child benefit, and fought like hell to stop me getting it but I did eventually after changing the kids address at school for my own.

    I was then able to claim Child and Family Tax Credits.

    You have to keep at it, and you will win.
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley

    Thank you for this. I think my son wants to live with me full time & is only agreeing to stay at his mum's one night per week so he doesn't upset her but recent events such has his Ps4 & games disappearing is really upsetting him.


    The problem with me is that I am too soft & I think about others before myself. I feel awful reducing his mum's maintenance because she will struggle but I have to remember that it isn't my problem. She is an adult & she needs to suffer the consequences of her poor decisions.
    • Spoonie Turtle
    • By Spoonie Turtle 15th Oct 19, 12:29 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 197 Thanks
    Spoonie Turtle
    Thank you for this. I think my son wants to live with me full time & is only agreeing to stay at his mum's one night per week so he doesn't upset her but recent events such has his Ps4 & games disappearing is really upsetting him.


    The problem with me is that I am too soft & I think about others before myself. I feel awful reducing his mum's maintenance because she will struggle but I have to remember that it isn't my problem. She is an adult & she needs to suffer the consequences of her poor decisions.
    Originally posted by bflare
    Oh yes I can believe that. She complained when I reduced it last time in line with the duration that I had him stay saying that she wouldn't be able to afford to live. Completely missing the point what child maintenance is for & if he is not there then she shouldn't need the money. This tells me that my son was basically neglected & if it wasn't for me then god knows how he would of been clothed etc.
    Originally posted by bflare
    It's probably easier said than done but at this point you really only need to concentrate on your son. Of course actions now will affect how she deals with you regarding your son, but you need to stand your ground and only engage with her on matters regarding your son, nothing else.

    You mentioned above she complained they'd have to move from a 3-bed to a 2-bed. Diddums. One child = only needing 2-bed anyway. If your son lives with you full time she'll only need a 1-bed and no protestations of hers will change that fact.

    I really hope you can get all this sorted for both your son's sake and yours. On a related but tangential note, please make sure his school are fully aware of what's happening - it will help them support him and also inform how to deal with his mother if she kicks up a fuss about anything.
    • bflare
    • By bflare 19th Nov 19, 11:33 AM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    It's probably easier said than done but at this point you really only need to concentrate on your son. Of course actions now will affect how she deals with you regarding your son, but you need to stand your ground and only engage with her on matters regarding your son, nothing else.

    You mentioned above she complained they'd have to move from a 3-bed to a 2-bed. Diddums. One child = only needing 2-bed anyway. If your son lives with you full time she'll only need a 1-bed and no protestations of hers will change that fact.

    I really hope you can get all this sorted for both your son's sake and yours. On a related but tangential note, please make sure his school are fully aware of what's happening - it will help them support him and also inform how to deal with his mother if she kicks up a fuss about anything.
    Originally posted by Spoonie Turtle

    Thank you & I have had a word with his school to inform them of the situation. They were very understandable.
    • bflare
    • By bflare 19th Nov 19, 11:36 AM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare

    Why does he stay at his mum's for one night per week though, why don't you have him full-time or is that considered contact.
    Originally posted by Ms Chocaholic

    This has now changed since I received a nasty text from her boyfriend. I drafted a Parental Plan & said that my son would no longer be staying over & she can see him for a total of 6 hours per week split over 2 evenings. He went there on Sunday for 2 hours & they were empty cupboards with no food or drink for him!
    • bflare
    • By bflare 19th Nov 19, 11:52 AM
    • 313 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    bflare
    You shouldn't be paying anything. If you have him 6 nights a week she should be paying you maintenance. Also you should be getting the child benefit.
    Originally posted by kathrynha


    My son is now living with me full time so I sent off the form to Child Benefit to notify them. My ex phoned me up this morning crying & pretty upset that she has gone to the bank expecting the Child Benefit to be there & they have stopped it. She said I am nasty & just want to hurt her. I tried explaining that she is not entitled to the child Benefit & if she is relying on it when she has not got a child there to support then she has bigger issues. Her boyfriend decided to chirp in & call me a b@#tard for taking the money away from my son. I politlely asked him to mind his business & I was met with "what the f@ck are you going to do about it".


    Previous to this I emailed Child Maintenance Services who confirmed that my ex should be paying me & that I should be claiming child benefit. I told my ex all of this in a letter that I sent her. I also gave her a copy of the email from Child Maintenance Service.
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