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County Court Claim

mercuteio
mercuteio Posts: 178
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edited 31 July 2019 at 1:36PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hi all,

I've just been reading the Newbies thread after receiving a County Court Claim - firstly, thanks for all your hard work over the years! Pretty impressed reading the amount of effort that's gone into these threads!!

I'm just about to send off the Acknowledgement of Service and thought I'd give you guys the back story so I could work out my defence. I am querying whether or not to tick the box saying I intend to defend part or all of the claim, though, and I would appreciate your input before I send. I should stress that I have only just returned home to find the claim, but it was actually issued 14 days ago, so I need to act urgently.

I'm the registered keeper of a vehicle that received a ticket in January from VCS. I'm not sure if the story I have will amount to a reasonable legal defence, and I almost considered paying up, but I was somewhat incensed when I realised that it's not actually legal according to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act for VCS to increase their demand from an initial £100 Notice to Keeper to £160 (£185 including court fees), so have decided I want to fight this, even if it's just to make that point. For that bit, I know I have a legal defence. I'm not 100% sure if I have a legal defence for the entirety of the claim though, which is why I'm asking for advice before I send off the AoS.

Story is as follows:

- I started working part-time in a hospital on Jan 14th. I commute from another part of the country, and travel down for work each week.

- The hospital is overcrowded and has a waiting list to apply for permits. The ticket I received was just over two weeks after starting the job, and I didn't have a permit

- The nature of the work I do means that I am one of the specialist doctors called when a patient has an airway emergency - that means that there is very little time to waste when you receive a call about this kind of issue

- The day of the ticket, I was on-call, which means I was the designated member of the team for dealing with emergencies.

- The hospital is enormous (one of the biggest in Europe) and at the time I was not familiar with the car parks (I normally take public transport, and the day of the ticket was my 8th day working in the hospital)

- I planned to take public transport as usual, but received a call describing a suspected developing airway emergency before I left. The car was faster to get to the hospital than public transport

- The hospital car parks are very disorganised, and to this day I'm still not sure where the patient car parks are. However, I do know that the car parks that are nearest the entrance where I needed to be all require staff permits to open a barrier

- The nearest bit of land that a car can actually be stopped without a staff parking permit is a private car park. I still don't really understand the arrangement, but I think the hospital owns the land, and rents it to a nearby manufacturer of gambling machines. I believe VCS manage the car park for the gambling machine company.

- Although a rushed note was written and left on the dashboard, a Parking Charge ticket was placed on the car windscreen. A Pay & Display ticket was not evident inside the car, however.

- A series of demands for payment came through the door, including a Letter Before Claim (which I thought was a threat, like the other letters, and chose not to respond to). However, on returning from work this week I found a County Court Claim Form issued on 17th July (14 days ago today - I've been away from home which is why I haven't posted earlier)

- I did not request a Subject Access Request at the time of the Letter Before Claim, and am not sure if I am able to do so now

- The photos that have been sent with previous demands demonstrate the car in a clearly marked parking space right next to a sign post of some kind (I'm going to go back to check exactly what's written on it, as this isn't clear from the photos)


So, based on the story above, it's clear that I need to complete the Acknowledgement of Service very quickly. The advice I'd like to request is this:

1) Given the story above, should I try and defend the claim in its entirety (I ask this question specifically because a Pay & Display ticket was not evident in the car) or should I only defend part of the claim because it's not legal for VCS to have increased the claim from their intial Notice To Keeper? I need to tick a box saying whether I intend to defend all of this claim, part of this claim or contest jurisdiction before I can send back the Acknowledgement of Service.

2) Given that the photo of the car sent to me demonstrates a clear parking space next to a sign, does the story above provide any substance that may form a legitimate legal argument?

Thank-you very much!


p.s. I'm not sure if this is of relevance or not, but just in case . . . apart from this incident I continued to travel to and from the hospital uneventfully by public transport until May, when I had another emergency that required speedier transport to attend to. The car found itself ticketed again in the same car park. About 5 letters relating to that particular ticket have so far been sent, but not a Letter Before Claim, nor a County Court Claim form. Not sure if that's relevant at this point, but thought I'd mention it just in case.
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Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,426
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    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Did it come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, or from somewhere else?

    To do the Acknowledgement of Service, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.
  • mercuteio
    mercuteio Posts: 178
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    Hi Keith,

    Thanks for taking the time to reply. Issue date is 17th July. The only thing stopping me from completing it is whether or not I should tick the box saying I intend to defend all of the claim or part of the claim. I’m not 100% sure if I have a strong enough defence to defend all of the claim or not based on the story above - that’s the only thing.

    Many thanks!
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    You intend to defend all of this claim


    Please read up on this in the Newbies faq thread near the top of the forum


    Post #2 there covers claims right through to the hearing
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,426
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    You cannot defend part of the claim - that's a nonsense in these parking issues.
    That point is only really valid when when you acknowledge that there is a debt but just dispute the value of a debt - e.g. you have building work done and the builder tries to charge more than the amount agreed.

    To do the Aos, follow the guidance already given. You have until Monday 5th August to do that.


    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th July, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 19th August 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's nearly three weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, and as fatbelly says, please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    edited 31 July 2019 at 2:37PM
    Have you read this?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principleshttps

    Have they complied with them?

    They can only get the court fee and legal charges if they win, and have employed a solicitor. Everything else is an abuse of process, read this

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6014081

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • mercuteio
    mercuteio Posts: 178
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    Quentin wrote: »
    You intend to defend all of this claim


    Please read up on this in the Newbies faq thread near the top of the forum


    Post #2 there covers claims right through to the hearing

    Thanks Quentin. I've read the Newbies thread - I was trying to work out if I actually have a defendable case in the first place. As it happens, having returned to the site, even if I had any doubts about the activities that led to the charge, a more well-trodden path that they've violated is that the ticket machines have contradictory signs to the signs around the car park (signs around car park say it isn't a hospital car park, ticket machines say the hospital name), so that's probably a more solid defence.
    KeithP wrote: »
    You cannot defend part of the claim - that's a nonsense in these parking issues.
    That point is only really valid when when you acknowledge that there is a debt but just dispute the value of a debt - e.g. you have building work done and the builder tries to charge more than the amount agreed.

    To do the Aos, follow the guidance already given. You have until Monday 5th August to do that.


    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th July, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 19th August 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's nearly three weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, and as fatbelly says, please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or to find out exactly what to do with it.

    Thanks Keith - this is very helpful. This is exactly what I was querying initially - I wasn't sure if the situation provided a solid defence, even if it was an emergency, so I was wondering whether to defend only the fact that they've violated PoFA Schedule 4 by demanding more money than initially, or whether to defend the whole thing and demand them to step back from the whole fine. Now having returned to the area and found that the ticket machines say the car park is operated by a different operator to the signs around the car park, and also say that it is a hospital car park (in contradiction to the signs around the car park) I think there is a solid defence irrespective of the situation that actually took place.
    The_Deep wrote: »
    Have you read this?



    Have they complied with them?

    They can only get the court fee and legal charges if they win, and have employed a solicitor. Everything else is an abuse of process, read this



    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.


    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

    Ooh, no I haven't seen these. The first gov.uk link doesn't work, so perhaps if you could resend that it would be helpful, but I'll look up the others shortly as I form my defence statement.

    Many thanks all!
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    mercuteio wrote: »

    Ooh, no I haven't seen these. The first gov.uk link doesn't work, so perhaps if you could resend that it would be helpful, but I'll look up the others shortly as I form my defence statement.

    Just remove the last 5 digits that the deep has thrown in as a bonus and it will work
  • mercuteio
    mercuteio Posts: 178
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    Quentin wrote: »
    Just remove the last 5 digits that the deep has thrown in as a bonus and it will work

    Ah! Hadn't noticed that error - thank-you!
  • mercuteio
    mercuteio Posts: 178
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    Hi Everyone,

    Ok, I'm just getting to work with forming my defence statement. On re-reading the Newbies thread, I can see a couple of bits of advice that ideally I should have acted on at the Letter Before Claim stage, but did not. So, couple of questions:

    1) If I request a Subject Access Request now, given that the County Court Claim has already been issued, do VCS have a legal obligation to provide me with all of the data that you've specified I should ask for in a Subject Access Request?

    2) I've also prepared an email that I'm going to send to the hospital PALS team (as advised at the Letter Before Claim stage in the Newbies thread) when I get home and check some of the details. I will post this below. If possible, it would be helpful if someone could read this and tell me if there is anything that should be changed before sending it (I'll send it tomorrow morning if I don't hear back from anyone).

    Many thanks!
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,426
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    The answer to Q1 is - yes.
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