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  • FIRST POST
    • southantrim3
    • By southantrim3 7th Jun 19, 10:55 AM
    • 812Posts
    • 1,697Thanks
    southantrim3
    Wealthify etc verdict
    • #1
    • 7th Jun 19, 10:55 AM
    Wealthify etc verdict 7th Jun 19 at 10:55 AM
    Apologies if this has been asked before.

    I'm new to investing and thinking of dipping my toes in to a s&s ISA at around £100 per month.

    Have thought of either going down the wealthify/nutmeg etc route or vanguard etc...

    What route should I choose and why?

    All help/advice greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Everybody's Normal Till You Get to Know Them.
Page 1
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 7th Jun 19, 11:29 AM
    • 12,218 Posts
    • 15,153 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #2
    • 7th Jun 19, 11:29 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Jun 19, 11:29 AM
    In general, MSE's info on investing is fairly superficial but https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/stocks-shares-isas/ does offer a comparison between these investment styles.

    Essentially you're comparing between something simple but relatively costly and limited versus a wider choice that should be lower cost but needs a bit more research/knowledge.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 7th Jun 19, 11:41 AM
    • 16,498 Posts
    • 19,845 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #3
    • 7th Jun 19, 11:41 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Jun 19, 11:41 AM
    Choose your own funds because, and no offence meant, this is a relatively low amount of money so it will be good to learn as you go without risking your life savings rather than just effectively wash your hands of the whole thing and give it over to someone else leaving you none the wiser some years down the track and possibly with a substantial amount invested and substantial fees to pay.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 7th Jun 19, 12:51 PM
    • 98,579 Posts
    • 67,062 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #4
    • 7th Jun 19, 12:51 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jun 19, 12:51 PM
    Robo-guidence providers are there to offer very simple solutions at relatively low cost.

    They wont be the cheapest option. They wont be the most expensive. They wont be the "best" option. They wont be the worst. You wouldnt want to use them for large values but for very small amounts, they are ideal.

    Most robo-advice services currently out there are not expected to last for the long term. Most are loss making. Some of the highest profile are massively loss making and have to keep going back to investors to get money. Failures are expected.

    Wealthy is not that cheap. For example, its charge is 0.7% and funds 0.22%. So, that is 0.92% p.a. For what is effectively an investment in underlying passive funds.

    If I compare that to full advice using a mix of passive and active, you are looking at around 1.2% p.a. If you look at a DIY platform using a low-cost multi-asset fund withh underlying passives then you are looking at around 0.50%. So, its not far off full advice costs whilst being some way off the cheapest similar platform based equivalent. Advisers are not intersted in the small stuff. But if you can put in the effort to learn just a little bit more, then a DIY platform using a multi-asset fund with underlying passives would be better value.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • N1ckS
    • By N1ckS 7th Jun 19, 5:07 PM
    • 242 Posts
    • 182 Thanks
    N1ckS
    • #5
    • 7th Jun 19, 5:07 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jun 19, 5:07 PM
    I've had accounts with Moneyfarm, Evestor and Nutmeg and overall prefer the ease, performance and information provided by Nutmeg, even though its fees aren't the lowest. As mentioned by others it should be cheaper picking your own passive funds. It's something that I'd like to start soon myself but at the moment I'm happy with the convenience of a robo-investor.

    https://www.moneyobserver.com/news/nutmeg-named-top-performing-robo-portfolio-ftse-100-beats-it

    Here's a useful resource for comparing the cost of various DIY platforms based on your likely investment preferences. All sorts of variables to consider!
    http://comparefundplatforms.com
    • southantrim3
    • By southantrim3 7th Jun 19, 5:34 PM
    • 812 Posts
    • 1,697 Thanks
    southantrim3
    • #6
    • 7th Jun 19, 5:34 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jun 19, 5:34 PM
    Thank you all for your replies so far, greatly appreciated.

    Iím on a steep learning curve here hence not wanting to throw too much cash at it yet incase I sting myself...

    Robo-guidence providers are there to offer very simple solutions at relatively low cost.

    They wont be the cheapest option. They wont be the most expensive. They wont be the "best" option. They wont be the worst. You wouldnt want to use them for large values but for very small amounts, they are ideal.

    Most robo-advice services currently out there are not expected to last for the long term. Most are loss making. Some of the highest profile are massively loss making and have to keep going back to investors to get money. Failures are expected.

    Wealthy is not that cheap. For example, its charge is 0.7% and funds 0.22%. So, that is 0.92% p.a. For what is effectively an investment in underlying passive funds.

    If I compare that to full advice using a mix of passive and active, you are looking at around 1.2% p.a. If you look at a DIY platform using a low-cost multi-asset fund withh underlying passives then you are looking at around 0.50%. So, its not far off full advice costs whilst being some way off the cheapest similar platform based equivalent. Advisers are not intersted in the small stuff. But if you can put in the effort to learn just a little bit more, then a DIY platform using a multi-asset fund with underlying passives would be better value.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    What advice can you give me re Vanguard then, are they worth it?

    They claim their fees are quite low but they seem to have a restricted list of funds relative to others...
    Everybody's Normal Till You Get to Know Them.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 7th Jun 19, 6:08 PM
    • 12,218 Posts
    • 15,153 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #7
    • 7th Jun 19, 6:08 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jun 19, 6:08 PM
    What advice can you give me re Vanguard then, are they worth it?

    They claim their fees are quite low but they seem to have a restricted list of funds relative to others...
    Originally posted by southantrim3
    As suggested in dunstonh's signature, an IFA can't give 'advice' on a public forum, in the regulated meaningful sense of financial advice, but all of us can offer opinions and guidance....

    Investing generally involves at least two separate entities - fund managers who construct and maintain collective investments, and then platforms, on which investors can hold such products. Vanguard is different from most in that it offers a one-stop shop approach of a platform on which its own products can be held (hence the restricted range of funds).

    If you choose to invest in Vanguard's products (as many do, their global multi-asset LifeStrategy range is very popular, although it's more UK-biased than most) then doing so on the Vanguard Investor platform is cheap. Other low-cost global multi-asset offerings are available though (see below), but these would need to be held on a non-Vanguard platform.

    If you're leaning more towards the DIY route then worth researching at places such as:

    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/investing-beginners-guide
    https://www.hl.co.uk/beginners-guides/investing
    http://www.monevator.com
    http://kroijer.com/
    http://diyinvestoruk.blogspot.com/

    as well as bearing in mind a number of key points of principle:
    1. Only consider investing once you have adequate accessible cash reserves.
    2. Only invest if you're happy to commit for at least 5-7 years and preferably 10-15 or more.
    3. Diversify - ignore individual shares, etc, and concentrate on collective investments that spread your eggs over many baskets. Global multi-asset funds are a good place to start, available from the likes of HSBC Global Strategy, Vanguard LifeStrategy, Blackrock Consensus and L&G Multi-Index.
    4. Choose what you want to invest in before considering which platform to hold it/them on.
    5. Keep an eye on ongoing costs for funds and platforms - they shouldn't be the primary consideration but can make a noticeable difference over the long term.
    • southantrim3
    • By southantrim3 7th Jun 19, 6:50 PM
    • 812 Posts
    • 1,697 Thanks
    southantrim3
    • #8
    • 7th Jun 19, 6:50 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jun 19, 6:50 PM
    Thanks again,

    My initial thoughts had been 15 years. Funds I had thought of would have been a combination of UK FTSE tracker, US S&P tracker, cash and gold.

    S&S ISA is what I’d like to invest in given rates of interest everywhere else are pretty grim, however, I’m fully aware that I can just as easily make a loss this way. And yes, I’d like to keep fees to a minimum.

    The £100 per month would slowly increase to around £300 per month eventually.
    Everybody's Normal Till You Get to Know Them.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 7th Jun 19, 8:29 PM
    • 5,897 Posts
    • 5,149 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #9
    • 7th Jun 19, 8:29 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jun 19, 8:29 PM
    Vanguard then, are they worth it?
    Originally posted by southantrim3
    Having tried a few of the robos (for the various signup cashback incentives) then I agree Nutmeg is the best, Moola + Moneyfarm are OK and Wealthify was the most disappointing. When you look at the underlying asset allocation there is nothing special about any of them that justifies the higher fees.

    Vanguard Investor is a significantly cheaper S&S ISA platform with similar fund management costs. Have a look at their LifeStrategy range and for your timescales consider something like VLS80 which is globally diversified with a mix of share equities and fixed interest bonds. In a really bad stock market crash you could see losses of around 40% and would need to hang on for the eventual recovery.

    Also consider if additional Pension or S&S Lifetime ISA (if under 40) contributions might be a better option for your circumstances.

    Alex
    • latinaid
    • By latinaid 3rd Jul 19, 3:55 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 183 Thanks
    latinaid
    Having tried a few of the robos (for the various signup cashback incentives) then I agree Nutmeg is the best, Moola + Moneyfarm are OK and Wealthify was the most disappointing.
    Alex
    Originally posted by Alexland
    As a matter of interest, what was disappointing about Wealthify? Is it the performance, customer service, ease of use ...?

    I took advantage of the MSE bonus thing a few weeks ago, so I'm expecting a bonus of £40 for my £400 investment, as well as any other growth.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 3rd Jul 19, 9:48 PM
    • 5,897 Posts
    • 5,149 Thanks
    Alexland
    As a matter of interest, what was disappointing about Wealthify? Is it the performance, customer service, ease of use ...?

    I took advantage of the MSE bonus thing a few weeks ago, so I'm expecting a bonus of £40 for my £400 investment, as well as any other growth.
    Originally posted by latinaid
    Wealthify are just another bland and uninspiring 'me too' investment product riding the fintech wave. The founders probably did well for themselves cashing out to Aviva who already had an equivalent investment capability anyway so didn't need it.

    I saw a few errors on sign-up, the initial £25 payment was collected, the first £25 bonus was added, then the following payments failed to collect. I noticed a few months later and could have contacted them to resolve but couldn't be bothered so just closed the account withdrawing £50.

    Alex
    • thickasabrick
    • By thickasabrick 4th Jul 19, 11:48 AM
    • 111 Posts
    • 83 Thanks
    thickasabrick
    Wealthify etc verdict
    As part of a goal to educate my (adult) children and myself about finances I started a S&S ISA with Vanguard last year and encouraged each of them to setup one too. Started with the minimum £100 monthly contribution.

    Have gone with a global tracker, FTSE All-World High Dividend Yield UCITS ETF (VHYL) as I already have a large holding of Vanguard LifeStrategy in my pension (SIPP).

    Reasoning can be found on a few articles from Monevator, The Escape Artist with special mention of Lars Kroijer Investing Demystified.

    It's been quite interesting as Vanguard allows you to link accounts so we can see the performance of each others accounts. I had purchased additional units in the summer whilst their accounts have trickled along purchasing approx 2 units each month with the £100. For a while I was actually negative compared to theirs. So far the personal return on my S&S ISA is 10.96% with the their returns sitting at 13.40%, 13.42% and 12.13%.

    Plan is to review on the anniversary of each account and apply what they have learned about the process over the last year.

    If starting with small investment sums then find a provider that minimises the fees and transaction costs. Monevator has a table of providers with information that should help you make a suitable choice.

    As for fund choice, a low cost global tracker to start. Availability depending on your chosen platform. There are some quite knowledgable people posting on this forum, who, if asked nicely, might be able to list some funds that would allow you to make a first choice to get started.
    Apologies if this has been asked before.
    I'm new to investing and thinking of dipping my toes in to a s&s ISA at around £100 per month.

    Have thought of either going down the wealthify/nutmeg etc route or vanguard etc...

    What route should I choose and why?

    All help/advice greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by southantrim3
    • N1ckS
    • By N1ckS 5th Jul 19, 11:19 AM
    • 242 Posts
    • 182 Thanks
    N1ckS
    Excellent advice and links.
    • Roland Flagg
    • By Roland Flagg 9th Jul 19, 9:03 AM
    • 1,239 Posts
    • 429 Thanks
    Roland Flagg
    Sorry to hijack the thread, but it's been over 30 days and still no bonus.
    Has anyone received it?
    • N1ckS
    • By N1ckS 9th Jul 19, 9:28 AM
    • 242 Posts
    • 182 Thanks
    N1ckS
    The cashback will be paid into your account within 30 days of having been invested for 6 months.
    https://www.wealthify.com/moneysavingexpert/may-2019-offer/terms-and-conditions-may-2019
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