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  • FIRST POST
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 16th May 19, 11:21 PM
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    Aqeel Rahman
    Help!! Bought a car previously purchased using a stolen credit card
    • #1
    • 16th May 19, 11:21 PM
    Help!! Bought a car previously purchased using a stolen credit card 16th May 19 at 11:21 PM
    HELP HELP HELP

    I bought a car easter sunday and i did a HPI check, matched the V5 to the car and HPI report, I saw a passport of the previous keeper with the same name as the V5 and also found a receipt for the previous owner from the ‘Dealer’ he bought it from with the previous keepers name and address on it and saying it was ‘paid in full on debit card’ and I paid by bank transfer.

    The V5 has arrived in my name and 3 weeks later i was stopped by the Police who siezed the car and said the car was reported stolen on the 8th of May, by the ‘Dealer’ as a fraudlent credit card was used to purchase it and the funds had been retracted from his bank.

    The date the car was logged as stolen was the same date the previous keeper obtained the vehicle however the marker was put on on 8th may 3 weeks after i bought it so at the time it was HPI clear.

    The chaps i bought the car off still answer the phone and say ‘what are you talking about’! And the police simply have said nothing its been a week!!

    What will happen to the car?



    where do i stand?
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 17th May 19, 8:03 AM
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    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 8:03 AM
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 8:03 AM
    I don't know the legal position regarding the car but I think you should be looking into starting a small claim against the seller in case the car isn't returned to you.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th May 19, 9:17 AM
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    waamo
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 9:17 AM
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 9:17 AM
    What have the police said? Have they seized it as part of an ongoing criminal investigation or have they returned it to the previous owner?
    This space for hire.
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 4:45 PM
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    Aqeel Rahman
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 4:45 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 4:45 PM
    All the Police have said that its a stolen car and they will be returning its owner.

    I think the dealer and the guys i bought it off maybe in on a scam together. A respinsible dealer would never let anyone pay £6700 without chip and pin validation.

    But there was no possible way for me to prevent this happening. I bought the car with good eill and did all the appropriate checks and even paid by bank trasfer.

    The bank have written me a letter saying they cant refund me?

    What is a small claims court and how sucessful will it be getting my money back?
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 4:47 PM
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    Aqeel Rahman
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 4:47 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 4:47 PM
    At the moment it is just seized and sat in a compound. I think they might return it to the previous owner
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 17th May 19, 4:53 PM
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    hollydays
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 4:53 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 4:53 PM
    You need to discuss it with the police officer who's dealing.
    Why didn't someone just come round to your house to get the car?
    The dealer had your details.
    Last edited by hollydays; 17-05-2019 at 4:56 PM.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th May 19, 5:01 PM
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    waamo
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 5:01 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 5:01 PM
    At the moment it is just seized and sat in a compound. I think they might return it to the previous owner
    Originally posted by Aqeel Rahman
    This is a bit confusing. The person you paid bought it off a dealer with a stolen credit card is that correct?

    The police have seized and have stated they will return it to the owner. I'm guessing this is the dealer is that correct?

    Has the person using the stolen card been arrested?
    This space for hire.
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 5:11 PM
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    Aqeel Rahman
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 5:11 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 5:11 PM
    Yes thats correct the person i bought it off paid on a stolen credit card ‘apparentley’?

    But the car was reported stolen 2 months after the dealer sold the previous keeper the car and about 3 weeks after i bought it.

    Yes, their saying the car will do back to the dealer and no no ones arrested this guy?
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 5:13 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    Aqeel Rahman
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 5:13 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 5:13 PM
    You need to discuss it with the police officer who's dealing.
    Why didn't someone just come round to your house to get the car?
    The dealer had your details.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    I dont know maybe because i was on my way back from work in the car and it hit an ANPR camera and the police were in the area?

    A police officer has been allocated to the case today.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 17th May 19, 6:34 PM
    • 6,568 Posts
    • 4,941 Thanks
    sheramber
    All the Police have said that its a stolen car and they will be returning its owner.

    I think the dealer and the guys i bought it off maybe in on a scam together. A respinsible dealer would never let anyone pay £6700 without chip and pin validation.

    But there was no possible way for me to prevent this happening. I bought the car with good eill and did all the appropriate checks and even paid by bank trasfer.

    The bank have written me a letter saying they cant refund me?

    What is a small claims court and how sucessful will it be getting my money back?
    Originally posted by Aqeel Rahman
    the person using the stolen card may also have known the PIN.
    • bris
    • By bris 17th May 19, 6:57 PM
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    bris
    Certain things don't make sense here.

    The dealers were negligent if they didn't get chip and pin so any chargeback would have failed. Anyone with a proper merchant services account knows this.


    If they did get chip and pin verification then the dealer would win the chargeback and the bank takes the hit and opens their own investigation.


    You may be an innocent purchaser but you need real help from a proper legal adviser. A lot of things come into play with an innocent purchaser such as known the person you bought it off or was the car a bargain, these things can trip you up.
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 7:44 PM
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    Aqeel Rahman
    “Certain things don't make sense here.

    The dealers were negligent if they didn't get chip and pin so any chargeback would have failed. Anyone with a proper merchant services account knows this.

    If they did get chip and pin verification then the dealer would win the chargeback and the bank takes the hit and opens their own investigation.

    You may be an innocent purchaser but you need real help from a proper legal adviser. A lot of things come into play with an innocent purchaser such as known the person you bought it off or was the car a bargain, these things can trip you up.”

    Thats what iI’m failing to understand !!

    I have sought legeal advice and been told it would cost around £2000 to try getting my car or my money that would a 70% chance.

    I did buy the car slightly cheaper then retail value however the car had accident damage on it and after repairs would cost me around the same as retail. Which is why i got it so cheap.

    I am the innocent person in all this? There was no way for me to prevent this. Surely I must have a leg to stand on?
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 17th May 19, 7:49 PM
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    hollydays
    Slow down. Give the Police time to investigate.
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 11:24 PM
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    Aqeel Rahman
    ‘Good Evening *****

    Thanks for much for sending this information across to me.

    This is, unfortunately, a very complex case of fraud which will take some time to resolve.

    I have looked into the matter and can see that there are several elements to this crime however what I can be certain of is that the incident involving yourself sits with the Action Fraud to investigate and not Hertfordshire Police.

    We are only dealing with Mr ********* from *********** Cars in relation to the theft of his motor vehicle, not in relation to the fraud element (all frauds are investigated by Action Fraud).

    The action fraud reference number is NFRC **********.

    If you do not hear from them within a few days please contact the Met who will deal.

    Kind Regards’

    This is the Reply from the Police
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 11:28 PM
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    Aqeel Rahman
    To which I replied

    ‘Hi,

    Thank you so much for your time.

    The Action Fraud Ref you have provided me is Mr ******** Reference number that does not relate to me and would be for him when he reported the Fraud.

    Action Fraud logged Mr ******** fraud report and then I am presuming that reference number was provided to yourselves to report the car stolen.

    Would there be any chance that the motor vehicle would be returned to me?

    As i bought the vehicle in good faith with due diligence and with all the relevant paper work present and I am technically the owner of the vehicle.

    I completley understand Mr ******** position also and sympathise with him however the ‘fraud’ led to the motor vehicle to be ‘stolen’.

    So wouldnt the vehicle not be ‘stolen’ now as it is in my possession (and I have legally obtained it) and Mr ******* be able to issue civil proceedings in regards to the dispute of the ownership of the vehicle between me and Mr *******? and then the fraud aspect be dealt with by Action Fraud?

    There has been no way that I could have prevented this.

    I have tried retracting my money through the bank also and they have even said they wouldnt be able to return the funds and i thought that was the safest way to pay.

    I am really concerned as all my savings have been put into this vehicle.’
    • Aqeel Rahman
    • By Aqeel Rahman 17th May 19, 11:31 PM
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    • 0 Thanks
    Aqeel Rahman
    The Police Replied

    ‘Unfortunately the vehicle will be returned to Mr ******, he is the rightful owner of that vehicle and whilst I understand the upset and distress this has caused doesn’t negate the fact the vehicle belongs to that person. Sadly that is how the law works. You may show on the DVLA paperwork that you are the owner, however by law, you obtained the vehicle (not through your own fault) but by the deception of another.

    The vehicle cannot be ‘stolen’ from you as it was seized by the police as it was reported stolen by Action Fraud (not by Mr *****).

    You would only get the chance of reclaiming the money if either a civil claim were taken out against the person who defrauded you or your fraud case was brought to trial at a criminal court and the courts awarded you compensation.

    You are both victims to these offenders and hopefully Action Fraud will be able to identify the offenders’


    Is this right?? Please Help Surely I have some sort of hold over the vehicle?.
    • Hermione Granger
    • By Hermione Granger 18th May 19, 12:07 AM
    • 1,077 Posts
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    Hermione Granger
    Is this right?? Please Help Surely I have some sort of hold over the vehicle?.
    Originally posted by Aqeel Rahman
    I'm afraid not.
    As the person who sold it to you never held legal title to the car, they couldn't then transfer the title on to you, hence it still belongs to the dealer (or their insurance company if the loss was paid out by them).
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 18th May 19, 8:16 AM
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    agrinnall
    As I said back in post #2, small claim is likely to be your only way to get your money back now.


    https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
    • bris
    • By bris 18th May 19, 10:42 AM
    • 8,674 Posts
    • 7,582 Thanks
    bris
    It looks to me like the bank did indeed take the money back which would indicate they were negligent with the credit card transaction.


    You could still be classed as an innocent purchaser but that's not the polices call.


    Legal action via the courts to get the car back is your only hope as only a judge can decide whether the car is legally yours or not.


    If the dealers were indeed negligent with the taking the payment then you have a good case. CC payments need to be done properly and if the back took it back then it wasn't.
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 18th May 19, 11:31 AM
    • 1,932 Posts
    • 3,275 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    What a horrible thing to have happen.

    How long had the last "owner" owned the car before they sold it to you?? They must have got all the paperwork through pretty quickly.
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow "
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