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  • FIRST POST
    • lornao1
    • By lornao1 17th Apr 19, 5:26 PM
    • 38Posts
    • 11Thanks
    lornao1
    PPI and gladstone Brookes
    • #1
    • 17th Apr 19, 5:26 PM
    PPI and gladstone Brookes 17th Apr 19 at 5:26 PM
    Afternoon,
    In 2016 I contacted GB to assist with a PPI claim against Barclaycard. It came back that there was no PPI on the account.

    I have just received a letter from Barclay card stating
    "As part of our continuous improvement activity within PPI, we have identified that in a small proportion of enquiries, we gave incorrect responses. I am sorry to inform you this meant that you received an incorrect response for your Barclaycard Master advising we were unable to find a PPI policy. Following a further review, I have now identified that there was a PPI policy on this account and raised a complaint on your behalf."

    As the original enquiry showed no PPI GB closed the case, but are now asking for a percentage. I have no longer got any of the original paperwork and I cannot get onto GB website as it does not recognise my email address??

    So my question is do I need to pay GB a percentage ?
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 17th Apr 19, 8:03 PM
    • 98,598 Posts
    • 66,990 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 19, 8:03 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 19, 8:03 PM
    The ministry of justice covered this in their August 2014 publication.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/342291/Claims-management-regulation-business-bulletin-Aug-2014.pdf

    Page 2 - additional client fees.

    So, no. CMCs cannot bill against this unless the complaint was very recent.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 17th Apr 19, 10:44 PM
    • 36,516 Posts
    • 47,094 Thanks
    McKneff
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:44 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:44 PM
    My apologies. I have deleted my post to avoid cofusion.
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 18th Apr 19, 9:01 AM
    • 7,557 Posts
    • 4,771 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    • #4
    • 18th Apr 19, 9:01 AM
    • #4
    • 18th Apr 19, 9:01 AM
    My apologies. I have deleted my post to avoid cofusion.
    Originally posted by McKneff

    Is that the noun of covfefe?
    • lornao1
    • By lornao1 22nd Apr 19, 12:43 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    lornao1
    • #5
    • 22nd Apr 19, 12:43 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Apr 19, 12:43 PM
    The ministry of justice covered this in their August 2014 publication.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/342291/Claims-management-regulation-business-bulletin-Aug-2014.pdf

    Page 2 - additional client fees.

    So, no. CMCs cannot bill against this unless the complaint was very recent.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Thank you for your reply. What do I say to GB When they call ? Should I mention the above publication ?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 22nd Apr 19, 12:49 PM
    • 98,598 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #6
    • 22nd Apr 19, 12:49 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Apr 19, 12:49 PM
    Yes, you should mention it. In particular the point:
    If a CMC seeks further fees from clients where the
    contract has concluded, this may be in breach of
    General Rule 1 which requires you to conduct your
    business with honesty and integrity. It may also be
    considered an act of fraud by false representation
    (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006).

    If they refuse, then make a formal complaint. Then if they reject that, you now have access to the financial ombudsman service.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Barney Rubble 0403
    • By Barney Rubble 0403 22nd Apr 19, 1:17 PM
    • 50 Posts
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    Barney Rubble 0403
    • #7
    • 22nd Apr 19, 1:17 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Apr 19, 1:17 PM
    That's good info to know. I went through a cmc for a general search on products I thought would have no ppi and a few I new had ppi.

    Ones from the RBS group came back as no trace - not able to trace any accounts. They closed the claim as I didn't give them any account numbers. Didn't have them and wasn't expecting any ppi on RBS products apart from the mortgage.

    Climes on the mortgage directly via the RBS site and for good measure got them to check all c/cards and loans. The mortgage paid out around 7k but to my utter shock, a lombard loan paid out 500 and a second Lombard loan paid 5k. One of those loans I know I ticked the no ppi box as I did with the Mint card which they have asked for further time until June to investigate. So sounds very promising.

    I'm sure if the CMC get wind of this they will try their luck even though they failed.

    Good example to show that you don't need claims companies, the banks feel it's okay to brush them off and RBS group included ppi in their products despite ticking no on application forms.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 22nd Apr 19, 9:39 PM
    • 23,780 Posts
    • 13,131 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #8
    • 22nd Apr 19, 9:39 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Apr 19, 9:39 PM
    RBS group included ppi in their products despite ticking no on application forms.
    Originally posted by Barney Rubble 0403
    Do you know this for a fact?

    Did the Bank send you a copy of your original application form or are you relying on your memory of events from years ago?

    I think it unlikely that there was any evidence to support your allegation here and that the bank upheld your complaint for other reasons than the ones you gave.

    Regardless, well done on your success..
    • Barney Rubble 0403
    • By Barney Rubble 0403 23rd Apr 19, 6:05 PM
    • 50 Posts
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    Barney Rubble 0403
    • #9
    • 23rd Apr 19, 6:05 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Apr 19, 6:05 PM
    The claims were won due to pre-existing medical condition. RBS taking ppi even though I said no on the application was only an observation of my own and did not form part of any claim. I found a partial photocopy of a Lombard loan application ticked no ppi - back then I used to keep copies of everything.but all since chucked

    The mint card I can remember ticking the box I was only going to use it for work expenses. At least that was the initial plan - eek it didn't quite work out that way.

    The last service I took from Rbs was a direct line loan. Again ticked no but this one came back clear of ppi.This dates back to 2007.

    The 2 lombard loans date back to the late 1990's early 2000's and the mint card dates back to 2005.

    So surprised to say the least to receive payouts on the loans and the card looking highly likely.
    • lornao1
    • By lornao1 13th May 19, 12:38 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    lornao1
    Good afternoon,
    I have heard back from GB and they are insisting that I need to pay their invoice stating

    "In the event that any further information comes to light and the bank decide to re-visit their decision, we will re-open your file and ensure that any offer or rejection they make, is the correct decision. if this happens, our fees will be due as the terms of our agreement"

    and

    "Barclaycard have since written to us to explain that their response was incorrect and that they have now rectified their mistake and subsequently upheld the complaint. The letter confirms that they have used the information provided by GB to make their decision"

    Is there anything else that I can do, or should I pay their invoice ?

    many thanks
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 13th May 19, 1:08 PM
    • 98,598 Posts
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    dunstonh
    You should now raise a complaint. And when they reject that, you can refer it to the FOS. GB are basically doing what the Ministry of Justice said may be considered an act of fraud by false representation (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006) and a breach of breach of General Rule 1

    If Gladstone Brooks had been doing their job, they would have spotted the mistake. So, you make a complaint as follows:

    1 - The claims management companies principles require CMCs to put in complaints only after they have researched it correctly. So, if GB had done this, they would know there was PPI.
    2 - when rejected as no PPI by the bank, GB should have questioned this because of the research they carried out. Or are GB saying they didnt know if there was PPI and put in a complaint anyway (which is also in breach of the CMC principles).
    3 - Because GB accepted the decision by the bank and closed the case, the contract ended with that and GB did not request a new Letter of Authority or get a new contract agreed with you to reopen the case.

    Enclose a copy of the Aug 2014 publication and highlight paragraph 3 & 5 under additional client fees:
    If a CMC seeks further fees from clients where the
    contract has concluded, this may be in breach of
    General Rule 1 which requires you to conduct your
    business with honesty and integrity. It may also be
    considered an act of fraud by false representation
    (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006). .


    All CMCs have a statutory obligation to provide their
    services with reasonable care and skill. If a CMC
    fails to identify during the claims process that an
    offer made to their client is incorrect or otherwise
    inappropriate – and to advise the client of this –
    then it is likely that the CMC will have failed to
    comply with this obligation and therefore be in
    breach of contract.


    CMCs became regulated by the FCA in April and you now have access to the FOS. So, its time to let them have some of their own medicine.

    There is a tv advert that appears on during daytime that has a jingle to it that will always make you think "bunch of crooks" when you next hear it.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • lornao1
    • By lornao1 13th May 19, 1:31 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    lornao1
    Thank you very much for your reply. They are saying that the decision of the complaint made is

    'Barclaycard made a mistake and has written to GB as your authorised CMC to advise that they have rectified the situation.
    Barclaycard has confirmed that the offer was made to you is a result of GB's approach and the information provided on your behalf by GB.
    I am therefore satisfied that the fee charge has been requested correctly and in line with your agreement with GB"

    The case is now going to higher management for the final decision.
    Last edited by lornao1; 13-05-2019 at 2:05 PM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 13th May 19, 2:05 PM
    • 98,598 Posts
    • 66,990 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Yes. Now go to the FOS.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Bermonia
    • By Bermonia 13th May 19, 4:22 PM
    • 698 Posts
    • 536 Thanks
    Bermonia
    Take it to FOS... although from recent experience I am not sure they have that much of an appetite for these types of cases (expect nothing and you won’t be disappointed) - worse case scenario is that they agree you out, however GB will be out of pocket due to the case fee imposed by FOS so win/win really
    • swanny65
    • By swanny65 16th May 19, 9:17 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    swanny65
    Hi - stumbled upon this thread......

    My wife has also had a similar review from Barclaycard, although her case was slightly different. We have paid GB all their fees, as i had their initial paperwork and felt we were liable. Below is a summary of my wifes case:

    3 years ago we used GB to reclaim PPI on various cards held but my wife that i paid off when we got together in 2000. Barclaycard initially said they knew she had an account but couldn't trace the details of the PPI paid. Barclaycard refunded approx 2500 which i am sure was on the basis of average policy duration and the average premium paid. GB recommended we accepted the refund and we paid their commission.

    Fast forward to this April 2019 and out of the blue we got a congratulations email from GB and a couple of hours later my wife received a cheque for 3500 from Barclaycard. The letter from Barclaycard explained they had traced all her accounts and the payment was the additional PPI refund due.

    A request for GB fee's followed which we paid as the initial request for fees said if the case was reopened we would be liable to pay further fees to GB.

    Where we correct to pay the second fee to GB? Where GB correct to request the second fee.

    Thanks
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 16th May 19, 9:41 PM
    • 23,780 Posts
    • 13,131 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    I recommend you complain to the Financial Ombudsman that you were presented with a bill fully three years after your initial complaint.

    Claims Management Companies are now fully regulated.

    The fact that you've already paid weakens your position, but you should still complain.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 16th May 19, 10:04 PM
    • 98,598 Posts
    • 66,990 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Where we correct to pay the second fee to GB? Where GB correct to request the second fee.
    no and no

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/342291/Claims-management-regulation-business-bulletin-Aug-2014.pdf

    Quote:
    If a CMC
    fails to identify during the claims process that an
    offer made to their client is incorrect or otherwise
    inappropriate – and to advise the client of this –
    then it is likely that the CMC will have failed to
    comply with this obligation and therefore be in
    breach of contract.

    Some concluded PPI cases have been reviewed by
    financial institutions and in some cases additional
    redress has been awarded to customers. In such
    cases it may be inappropriate for CMCs to
    automatically charge their clients further fees in
    respect of such additional awards.

    The general position is that the agreement between
    the CMC and the client will have concluded at the
    point at which the client received redress and the
    CMC issuing the corresponding invoice.

    If a CMC seeks further fees from clients where the
    contract has concluded, this may be in breach of
    General Rule 1 which requires you to conduct your
    business with honesty and integrity. It may also be
    considered an act of fraud by false representation
    (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006).



    So Gladstone Brookes have done what the Ministry of Justice said may be considered an act of fraud.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • swanny65
    • By swanny65 17th May 19, 4:41 AM
    • 293 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    swanny65
    Thanks very much - we will write to GB first and request a refund of the fees paid based around the point they made a mis-representation.

    I did seriously think about not paying the fee but the GB initial settlement letter appeared clear, that they could have a second bite if two refunds were made.

    I didn’t even think to look here first.

    Thanks very much
    • lornao1
    • By lornao1 17th May 19, 12:34 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    lornao1
    I have just received a Final Decision Letter from GB stating that because of the "Passage of time" they are going to waive their fee.

    I would like to thank everyone for their help.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 17th May 19, 2:27 PM
    • 98,598 Posts
    • 66,990 Thanks
    dunstonh
    That is one result. Lets hope for others.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
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