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  • FIRST POST
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 10:00 AM
    • 137Posts
    • 49Thanks
    familyguy321
    Fine for entering wrong vehicle reg
    • #1
    • 5th Apr 19, 10:00 AM
    Fine for entering wrong vehicle reg 5th Apr 19 at 10:00 AM
    Hi all,

    As the registered keeper (RK), my mum has received a parking charge notice from a PPC for allegedly 'no payment/ticket'. The driver is adamant that payment was made and that the registration plate may have been entered incorrectly. The RK is determined to fight the charge. Unfortunately, the RK is not able to produce the parking ticket as evidence.

    I intend to visit the car park this weekend to take pictures of signs. Could someone advise:

    1. What should I look for specifically with the signs?

    2. Would it be worth asking the PPC to provide a record of all number plates that were entered in the time period the vehicle was in the car park?

    3. Anything else that can help appeal the charge?

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Regards,
    FG
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Apr 19, 11:30 AM
    • 23,989 Posts
    • 38,546 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 5th Apr 19, 11:30 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Apr 19, 11:30 AM
    Which PPC please?

    1. The photos should be taken in similar light conditions to those that prevailed at the time of parking, particularly so if during the hours of darkness, if so take them without flash. The wording on signs is the purported contract between the driver and PPC.

    You need to take a photo of the car park entrance, where a warning sign should be situated. You also need photos of the PDT machine and any instructions shown on it.

    2. You can try, but unlikely to get satisfaction. If it comes to a court case, try then.

    3. The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 tells you exactly how to appeal this, including a ready written template for your use (unaltered).
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 05-04-2019 at 11:39 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 11:35 AM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    • #3
    • 5th Apr 19, 11:35 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Apr 19, 11:35 AM
    Hi Umkomaas,

    Thanks for the response and useful advice. The PPC is One Parking Solution Ltd.

    I will post again once I have the photos.

    FG
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Apr 19, 12:54 PM
    • 74,578 Posts
    • 87,127 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 5th Apr 19, 12:54 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Apr 19, 12:54 PM
    If this is in Sussex, which site? I know a few OPS sites here.

    Would it be worth asking the PPC to provide a record of all number plates that were entered in the time period the vehicle was in the car park?
    Yep - that's a SAR. The RK needs to email OPS using the contact details given in their PRIVACY PAGE (Google it and their name). Head it up Subject Access request and SPECIFICALLY ask for a redacted copy of the machine list from that day, showing the VRN matching the payment at around xx time, or a near-miss VRN and to explain how 'near miss' it was.

    Do the SAR now, today, by email as explained above to the Data Protection Officer.

    Separately, wait till day 26 even though this was a postal PCN, and THEN appeal as per the back of the PCN, using our template.

    The point of delaying the appeal is to get the SAR back before POPLA is needed.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 1:31 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    • #5
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:31 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:31 PM
    Hi Coupon-mad,

    Thanks for the info and advice.

    If this is in Sussex, which site? I know a few OPS sites here.
    No, it is in Leicester

    Do the SAR now, today, by email as explained above to the Data Protection Officer.
    I have started drafting an email using a template in another thread but struggling to word it correctly. Could you please take a look and make any amendments if required?

    Email subject: Subject Access Request

    For the attention of the Privacy Officer,

    I am writing to you in your capacity as data protection officer for your company - One Parking Solutions Ltd. I have reason to believe you hold personal data on myself as a vehicle I own and am the registered keeper has visited a car parking site managed by your company. It should be noted that contrary to article 13 of GDPR legislation no privacy information was provided to myself, the data subject, at the time of collection. I am therefore compelled into making this request for access to personal data pursuant to Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation.

    The vehicle in question is a Vehicle Model with VRM: xxxx xxx.

    I have attached the V5 document to prove I am the registered keeper. Should you require further documentation necessary to verify my identity please contact me.

    I would like you to be aware at the outset, that I anticipate a reply to my request within one month as required under Article 12, failing which I will be forwarding my inquiry with a letter of complaint to the Information Commissioners Office (ICO).

    Please advise as to the following:
    1. Please confirm to me whether or not my personal data is being processed. If it is, please provide me with the categories of personal data you have about me in your files and databases.
    a. In particular, please tell me what you know about me in your information systems, whether or not contained in databases, and including e-mail, documents on your networks, or voice or other media that you may store.
    b. Additionally, please advise me in which countries my personal data is stored, or accessible from. In case you make use of cloud services to store or process my data, please include the countries in which the servers are located where my data are or were (in the past 12 months) stored.
    c. Please provide me with a copy of, or access to, my personal data that you have or are processing.
    2. Please provide me with any images you hold of my vehicle entering and leaving <address of car park> on xx March 2019.

    3. Please provide me with a redacted copy of any records from the PDT machines within <address of car park> on xx March 2019 that match the first 4 characters of my VRN xxxx

    4. Please advise how long you store my personal data, and if retention is based upon the category of personal data, please identify how long each category is retained.
    5. If you are additionally collecting personal data about me from any source other than me, please provide me with all information about their source, as referred to in Article 14 of the GDPR.
    6. If you are making automated decisions about me, including profiling, whether or not on the basis of Article 22 of the GDPR, please provide me with information concerning the basis for the logic in making such automated decisions, and the significance and consequences of such processing.

    Yours Sincerely,

    <RK Name>
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Apr 19, 1:34 PM
    • 74,578 Posts
    • 87,127 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:34 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:34 PM
    Privacy Officer,
    Nope:

    For the attention of the Data Protection Officer.
    Get rid of a b and c that will just delay it.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 5th Apr 19, 1:37 PM
    • 10,961 Posts
    • 12,413 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #7
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:37 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:37 PM
    2. Would it be worth asking the PPC to provide a record of all number plates that were entered in the time period the vehicle was in the car park?
    Originally posted by familyguy321
    The PPC would be breaking the law if they were to give you such a list as car number plates are classed as personal data under the Data protection act & General data protection regulations.
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 1:44 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    • #8
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:44 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:44 PM
    Understood. How would you suggest proving that payment was made but under misspelt registration?
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 1:45 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    • #9
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:45 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Apr 19, 1:45 PM
    Get rid of a b and c that will just delay it.
    Thanks

    One last question regarding this:

    Separately, wait till day 26 even though this was a postal PCN, and THEN appeal as per the back of the PCN, using our template.
    The point of delaying the appeal is to get the SAR back before POPLA is needed.
    RK received NtK on 27 March and appeal must be made withing 28 days according to back of PCN. Since OPS have a month to respond, it's likely the SAR may not be received by day 26. Could the appeal be made before SAR comes back?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    • 74,578 Posts
    • 87,127 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I said:
    The point of delaying the appeal is to get the SAR back before POPLA is needed.
    The person who replied to you about data protection is not a regular poster on this parking sub-board and the parking firm can CERTAINLY send you a suitable redacted VRN list (I think he missed the word 'redacted' in my instructions and your draft letter).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 2:08 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    I said:

    The point of delaying the appeal is to get the SAR back before POPLA is needed.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Apologies, I misread.

    The person who replied to you about data protection is not a regular poster on this parking sub-board and the parking firm can CERTAINLY send you a suitable redacted VRN list (I think he missed the word 'redacted' in my instructions and your draft letter).
    Point noted.

    So the next steps are:

    1. Today: Send SAR request via email to OPS data protection officer today
    2. Tomorrow: Visit car park and take photos of warnings signs and instructions of PDT machine
    3. Day 26: submit appeal via email to OPS
    4. x number of days after appeal: Receive rejection from OPS and submit appeal to POPLA using data from SAR (which should have arrived by now)

    Am I missing anything out?

    FG
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Apr 19, 2:24 PM
    • 74,578 Posts
    • 87,127 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Perfect, that timeline works and makes you much more informed for POPLA. It also gives you weeks of wriggle room if OPS refuse to provide the machine data of your VRN/near miss VRN first time, you'd be pinging back an email to demand it then complaining to Steve Clark at the BPA...and still with time for POPLA!

    Not if you appealed straight away, you'd run out of POPLA time.

    Bear in mind the BPA said a 'minor keypad error' should NOT be enforced, so that's why you need to see a 'near miss' VRN and are entitled to it as it's clearly the only near match for your car.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 3:08 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    Perfect, that timeline works and makes you much more informed for POPLA. It also gives you weeks of wriggle room if OPS refuse to provide the machine data of your VRN/near miss VRN first time, you'd be pinging back an email to demand it then complaining to Steve Clark at the BPA...and still with time for POPLA!

    Not if you appealed straight away, you'd run out of POPLA time.

    Bear in mind the BPA said a 'minor keypad error' should NOT be enforced, so that's why you need to see a 'near miss' VRN and are entitled to it as it's clearly the only near match for your car.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Thanks. Do you have a link or proof of where BPA have said this? May be useful to bring up later depending on how this goes.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Apr 19, 3:13 PM
    • 23,375 Posts
    • 29,809 Thanks
    Redx
    3. Day 26: submit appeal via email to OPS
    Originally posted by familyguy321
    only do this IF they allow an appeal by email

    the paperwork from them should tell you what format of appeal they accept, some only allow online submissions on their website for example, or by post , not by email

    so only appeal by email if they allow appeals by email

    the SAR request is normally emailed direct to the DPO at the company in question
    Last edited by Redx; 05-04-2019 at 4:39 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Apr 19, 3:15 PM
    • 74,578 Posts
    • 87,127 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do you have a link or proof of where BPA have said this?
    It's reported in the easy to Google POPLA Annual Report 2018.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 5th Apr 19, 4:31 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    only do this IF they allow an appeal by email

    the paperwork from them should tell you what format of appeal they accepts, some only allow online submissions on their website for example, or by post , not by email

    so only appeal by email if they allow appeals by email


    the SAR request is normally emailed direct to the DPO at the company in qiestion
    Originally posted by Redx
    Hi Redx,

    I've just double checked the PCN and they do allow appeal by email. Website and postal are other methods allowed.

    FG
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 9th Apr 19, 11:53 AM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    I have attached images below of the signs in the car park, however I have a small problem that may reduce chances of successfully appealing. The driver doesn't remember what they exactly entered on the parking machine so it is going to be difficult to match payment to the ANPR records.

    What's the likelihood that PCN can get cancelled based on any irregularities on the signs or will it be more hassle than paying the 60 reduced charge (tomorrow will be 14 days since NtK date)?

    I'm really confused on what to do!

    FG

    Outside Entrance:


    Inside Entrance:


    PDT Machine:


    OPS T&Cs:


    ANPR sign:
    • Beach Boy6
    • By Beach Boy6 9th Apr 19, 2:07 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Beach Boy6
    The same situation
    I am going though the same situation at Whiteley Shopping Centre from CP Plus. I parked, paid 2 for extra 2 hours using a similar machine, got a receipt giving me 6 hours and left.
    Two weeks later a PCN saying I had exceeded my parking and the total time was 6 hrs and 3mins. I looked for the receipt but by then it had got lost. I appealed, it got rejected. I went to POPLA. CP Plus sent them the wrong data from the wrong machine so POPLA rejected my appeal. I responded to POPLA but to no avail. So now 28 days after the rejection the charge has gone from 100 to 140.


    I have requested a SAR and wait to see what comes back. I am not paying them a penny.


    I wish I had read more before I appealed but I was angry more than anything as I did everything by the book


    Good luck
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 9th Apr 19, 2:48 PM
    • 7,304 Posts
    • 7,175 Thanks
    DoaM
    As your situation is completely different to this thread's OP (different location, different PPC), please start your own new thread ... IF you still need advice after reading the NEWBIES sticky thread.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 10th Apr 19, 8:02 AM
    • 137 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    familyguy321
    Can anyone advise if it's still worth appealing this PCN? The driver definitely paid to park for 1 hour but cannot remember what they entered on the machine.

    Is there anything on the car park signs that are grounds for appeal?

    Today is the last day for paying the reduced charge of 60.

    FG
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