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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 28th Aug 18, 11:34 AM
    • 526Posts
    • 183Thanks
    MSE Callum
    0 WOW
    House of Fraser store closures set to be announced this week - MSE News
    • #1
    • 28th Aug 18, 11:34 AM
    0 WOW
    House of Fraser store closures set to be announced this week - MSE News 28th Aug 18 at 11:34 AM
    House of Fraser is set to announce a spate of store closures this week – as its website remains down more than two weeks after it was bought...
    Read the full story:
    'House of Fraser store closures set to be announced this week'

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Page 1
    • VT82
    • By VT82 28th Aug 18, 12:08 PM
    • 1,038 Posts
    • 877 Thanks
    VT82
    • #2
    • 28th Aug 18, 12:08 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Aug 18, 12:08 PM
    I take it no one who posted their gift cards in has heard a dicky-bird back yet? I'm still holding out sending mine in; I know they're not doing any good gathering dust in my wallet, but I would still like to hear an update before I send them off.
    • jenniewb
    • By jenniewb 28th Aug 18, 1:18 PM
    • 12,592 Posts
    • 11,768 Thanks
    jenniewb
    • #3
    • 28th Aug 18, 1:18 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Aug 18, 1:18 PM
    I take it no one who posted their gift cards in has heard a dicky-bird back yet? I'm still holding out sending mine in; I know they're not doing any good gathering dust in my wallet, but I would still like to hear an update before I send them off.
    Originally posted by VT82


    Sent mine last week, it was below £50 and I was fairly sure they'd not honour it anyway so avoided the suggested £4.20 odd fee the post office man recommended and took evidence of posting instead.


    Not heard anything, doubt I will.


    My mum works for a small family run company which has been going for a few decades, it's about to go under because Mike Ashley waited for the company to go into administration, he knew what he was doing, he has no aims to pay anyone back, struggling companies who allowed credit to run up because they had wrongly allowed a gentleman's agreement on this.
    My mum and her husband have given that company many years of their life including 24 hour days and unpaid work multiple times over, because they are grafters and because they believed in the company. That Mike Ashely can destroy companies like this- as has already been reported and push those so close to retirement age towards unemployment even ignoring the stress and sleepless nights, on a fast track needing another career (but too far to retire without personal debts risking home loss) just leaves me beyond words.


    The government needs to make rules on this one, it keeps happening too often and the fat cat walks away scot free and expecting to benefit every time.
    • Vegastare
    • By Vegastare 28th Aug 18, 4:08 PM
    • 146 Posts
    • 321 Thanks
    Vegastare
    • #4
    • 28th Aug 18, 4:08 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Aug 18, 4:08 PM
    It saddens me at the loss of House of Fraser and the stores in it's chain like Kendals in Manchester....as for Mike Ashley well his stepping in on the brink was certainly what one can expect from him.....I can't help but think that the landlords may have worked with other investors.........still it is sad for so many staff and there families, the suppliers and the towns that will see closures.....we know trading styles are changing but maybe the councils need to step in with lower business taxes while these stores try and re structure.
    Soon we will have High Street full of coffee shops - four have opened in the last 12 mths alone in the small town I live in.
    But at least they are bringing something to the hald empty high streets
    • photome
    • By photome 28th Aug 18, 4:15 PM
    • 13,958 Posts
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    photome
    • #5
    • 28th Aug 18, 4:15 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Aug 18, 4:15 PM
    Sent mine last week, it was below £50 and I was fairly sure they'd not honour it anyway so avoided the suggested £4.20 odd fee the post office man recommended and took evidence of posting instead.


    Not heard anything, doubt I will.


    My mum works for a small family run company which has been going for a few decades, it's about to go under because Mike Ashley waited for the company to go into administration, he knew what he was doing, he has no aims to pay anyone back, struggling companies who allowed credit to run up because they had wrongly allowed a gentleman's agreement on this.
    My mum and her husband have given that company many years of their life including 24 hour days and unpaid work multiple times over, because they are grafters and because they believed in the company. That Mike Ashely can destroy companies like this- as has already been reported and push those so close to retirement age towards unemployment even ignoring the stress and sleepless nights, on a fast track needing another career (but too far to retire without personal debts risking home loss) just leaves me beyond words.


    The government needs to make rules on this one, it keeps happening too often and the fat cat walks away scot free and expecting to benefit every time.
    Originally posted by jenniewb
    That’s sad but hardly Mike Ashley’s fault, what would have happened if he hadn’t bought H of F
    • jenniewb
    • By jenniewb 29th Aug 18, 5:09 AM
    • 12,592 Posts
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    jenniewb
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 18, 5:09 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 18, 5:09 AM
    That’s sad but hardly Mike Ashley’s fault, what would have happened if he hadn’t bought H of F
    Originally posted by photome
    If he had not waited and deliberately waited for the company to go into administration, he would have had to pay the bills of the many companies HoF owed money to, if not in full then to some agreement perhaps enough that they didn't go under. Then there are any staff debts- I don't know what staff are owed if they are (eg saved holiday pay, company pensions and so on). The only reason he waited was so he didn't have to pay these.


    But it gets worse- because it was not bought by Mike Ashley- it was bought by Sports Direct (owned by Mike Ashley). The reason he did this rather than put it in his own name? Because if there are any law suits heading his way, any suing would come from Sports Direct rather than Mike Ashley's own pockets.


    Rest assured, he may well have kept the store open, but it was done entirely to earn him profit and not as a good will gesture. That people will struggle and suffer as a result will be of no concern to him, from all reports and indeed the way he is acting regarding this would indicate that he has no morals.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 29th Aug 18, 7:50 AM
    • 2,720 Posts
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    NBLondon
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 18, 7:50 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 18, 7:50 AM
    The only reason he waited was so he didn't have to pay these.
    Originally posted by jenniewb
    This is called business
    Because if there are any law suits heading his way, any suing would come from Sports Direct rather than Mike Ashley's own pockets.
    This is called business
    Rest assured, he may well have kept the store open, but it was done entirely to earn him profit and not as a good will gesture.
    This is called business.

    Or are you alleging that Mike Ashley secretly manipulated customers and suppliers to push a company into administration so he could buy it at the right time? It's rough that a small family business can go under because of cashflow and people who have given a lot to it lose out. But that's capitalism... Ruthlessness works and it's self-reinforcing.
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
    • SuiDreams
    • By SuiDreams 29th Aug 18, 11:53 AM
    • 2,347 Posts
    • 10,464 Thanks
    SuiDreams
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 18, 11:53 AM
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 18, 11:53 AM
    We had 2 HoF near me that were previously announced to close, this would have led to the demise of both town centres, since the buy out it has been announced that these stores will no longer close, so jobs and high streets saved.
    • jenniewb
    • By jenniewb 31st Aug 18, 3:38 AM
    • 12,592 Posts
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    jenniewb
    • #9
    • 31st Aug 18, 3:38 AM
    • #9
    • 31st Aug 18, 3:38 AM
    This is called business
    This is called business
    This is called business.

    Or are you alleging that Mike Ashley secretly manipulated customers and suppliers to push a company into administration so he could buy it at the right time? It's rough that a small family business can go under because of cashflow and people who have given a lot to it lose out. But that's capitalism... Ruthlessness works and it's self-reinforcing.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    I'm not proposing he did anything secretly; he would have known if he waited long enough the company would go into administration and only then would he stake his claim in order to shirk off the debts -then to buy the company not in his name but that of one of his companies would mean no one could sue him or anything similar because it wasn't he who bought the company on paper it was Sports Direct. He knew what he was doing, he made no secret of it, it's all published for anyone to read about.


    It's not illegal and you may well describe it as "business" but it is morally corrupt and just plain wrong on many other levels. The whole thing could have been handled in a far less damaging way and perhaps fairer way when you consider many of the firms who House of Fraser owed money to were for products and services House of Fraser either didn't pay for or retained. Anyone else would call that theft, not apparently if it's "business".


    Ashley deliberately waited for the brand to go into administration with the added agreement that he would not owe a penny to those who had provided their side of the contracts they had signed. He knew what he was doing, he didn't have to wait. But that wouldn't have gotten him quite as much money as the current way he's done things, would it, and then it maybe wouldn't fit your criteria for "business".
    Last edited by jenniewb; 31-08-2018 at 4:10 AM.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 31st Aug 18, 8:20 AM
    • 2,720 Posts
    • 13,325 Thanks
    NBLondon
    It's not illegal and you may well describe it as "business" but it is morally corrupt and just plain wrong on many other levels.
    Originally posted by jenniewb
    Only by your standards... you freely admit that Ashley was open about his plans so you can't even call him hypocritical.
    The whole thing could have been handled in a far less damaging way and perhaps fairer way when you consider many of the firms who House of Fraser owed money to were for products and services House of Fraser either didn't pay for or retained. Anyone else would call that theft, not apparently if it's "business".
    If HoF did it deliberately, with the intention of depriving those firms, then it's theft (or possibly fraud). If the previous owners of HoF did it knowingly, then re-purchased the remnants of the company under a different identity - that would probably be fraud too.

    Why is it morally wrong for Ashley/SD to make a business decision that benefits themselves (and their investors and shareholders)? Why would any organisation take on another's debts that they had no hand in creating? The only reason for that is if they believe their superior management skills can overcome the situation that led to the debts in the first place and make a profit - or they believe they can asset-strip and make a profit that way.

    and then it maybe wouldn't fit your criteria for "business".
    Have you not heard of this thing called capitalism, jennie?
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
    • photome
    • By photome 31st Aug 18, 2:43 PM
    • 13,958 Posts
    • 9,481 Thanks
    photome
    I'm not proposing he did anything secretly; he would have known if he waited long enough the company would go into administration and only then would he stake his claim in order to shirk off the debts -then to buy the company not in his name but that of one of his companies would mean no one could sue him or anything similar because it wasn't he who bought the company on paper it was Sports Direct. He knew what he was doing, he made no secret of it, it's all published for anyone to read about.


    It's not illegal and you may well describe it as "business" but it is morally corrupt and just plain wrong on many other levels. The whole thing could have been handled in a far less damaging way and perhaps fairer way when you consider many of the firms who House of Fraser owed money to were for products and services House of Fraser either didn't pay for or retained. Anyone else would call that theft, not apparently if it's "business".


    Ashley deliberately waited for the brand to go into administration with the added agreement that he would not owe a penny to those who had provided their side of the contracts they had signed. He knew what he was doing, he didn't have to wait. But that wouldn't have gotten him quite as much money as the current way he's done things, would it, and then it maybe wouldn't fit your criteria for "business".
    Originally posted by jenniewb

    Why would he do it any differently? why would anyone buy something today if you know its going to be cheaper tomorrow



    Your anger should be directed at the former owners of H of F
    • GreenBitterfly
    • By GreenBitterfly 9th Sep 18, 12:43 PM
    • 370 Posts
    • 740 Thanks
    GreenBitterfly
    Looks like the website is going to re-open - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/06/house-of-fraser-website-reopen-distribution-deal-xpo
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