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Double glazing compensation

Hi,

We recently employed a company to install new windows in our house, dismantle the front porch and build a new, bigger one. This was a smaller company than others we had quotes from and we liked that they were straightforward with their quote and didn't slowly chip away at it like the other companies did - making out they were doing us a favour.

Anyway, the whole process has been a complete headache. We were originally told it would take about 10 days but they've been here 3.5 weeks now and it still isn't finished. I think it'll probably take 5 weeks in total to get done. Basically the guy has come clean to me and said he has a bigger job that has had some issues and so he's taken workers off of our job to prioritise the other one. Below are some of the main problems we've experienced:

1. They ordered the wrong glass for the landing. As at today, the glass still hasn’t been swapped out.

2. The window configuration in the small bedroom is wrong. We have 2 fan lights where we asked for one.

3. We have a hole in the outer layer of our conservatory roof due to falling debris when fitting the back bedroom window. No care was taken to protect the roof.

4. Despite asking on more than one occasion for them to be filled, we were left with significant holes (fist size) in our brickwork on both the upper and lower bay windows for the best part of 2 weeks. This was during a period of significant wet weather that left ourselves at risk of damp.

5. The skip was left on our shared drive for a week longer than promised.

6. On more than one occasion, we were told the builders were due to start the following day only for them not to turn up.

7. On multiple occasions the fitters did not complete a full day’s work, instead being pulled off of our job to complete work on another. There was a complete lack of communication regarding this and it has contributed to our job being delayed significantly. On days when they didn’t turn up as we had been told they would, we had left the back gates unlocked for them. They were therefore left unlocked and unattended all day.

7. Insufficient protection to our front door and the newly installed bay window when taking down the porch. This has resulted in damage to both the door and frame.

8. The wrong glass has been ordered and fitted to the front panels of the porch. We asked for clear and they ordered reeded.

9. The wrong glass has been ordered and fitted to the porch doors. We told them on more than one occasion what we wanted but, again, no notes were taken and so we have been left with the wrong glass and design.

10. Both the shared gate and our garden gate left wide open on one occasion after they left for the day. Far from ideal when we’ve had a spate of burglaries in the area recently.

My wife is 7 months pregnant and we both wok full time. I am having to chase the guy on an almost daily basis via phone, text and email to discuss all the problems and find out why there's been little or no progress.

The whole job is £15k, a massive amount of money for us, and the service we have received has been terrible frankly. I have paid a 30% deposit but am holding the rest back until we can agree on a suitable compensation amount.

Does anyone have any idea what that should be? If we had known the significant delays and issues we'd have, we would've paid the extra £4,000 and gone with the bigger company who would have had this knocked out in 10 days.

Does 10% or even 20% seem unreasonable?
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Comments

  • AndyMc.....
    AndyMc..... Posts: 3,248
    Combo Breaker First Post
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    How many boards are you going to post this question on?
  • soul_fool
    soul_fool Posts: 11 Forumite
    Discovered the home improvement board after this one. Happy to remove one of the posts if you can advise which you feel is the most appropriate forum.


    Many thanks.
  • Gavin83
    Gavin83 Posts: 8,739
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    soul_fool wrote: »
    The whole job is £15k, a massive amount of money for us, and the service we have received has been terrible frankly. I have paid a 30% deposit but am holding the rest back until we can agree on a suitable compensation amount.

    As a warning you can't really do this, if they were to take you to court they would win. However it is of course better if you can come to a solution.
    soul_fool wrote: »
    Does 10% or even 20% seem unreasonable?

    10% is probably too high.

    Are they rectifying the issues that have occured, ie: the damage and wrongly ordered parts? What extra costs have you incurred due to the delays? Was there a scheduled completion time in the contract?
  • soul_fool
    soul_fool Posts: 11 Forumite
    They are rectifying the issues, but it's adding yet more delays. All the problems have been their doing as well. For instance, the 4 occasions where they ordered or fitted the wrong glass/windows were because the guvnor didn't take any notes when we were going through what we wanted.


    The latest issue, last Friday, where the wrong porch doors were fitted will take about 10 days to resolve as they will need to measure and order new ones.


    It is more to do with the inconvenience of the delays and stress caused to my heavily pregnant wife than any monetary costs we have suffered.


    There was no completion time mentioned in the contract, but the owner has admitted he said 10 days originally and has overrun significantly.
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Gavin83 wrote: »
    As a warning you can't really do this, if they were to take you to court they would win. However it is of course better if you can come to a solution.



    10% is probably too high.

    Are they rectifying the issues that have occured, ie: the damage and wrongly ordered parts? What extra costs have you incurred due to the delays? Was there a scheduled completion time in the contract?

    OP has the right to offset, but only the amount that OP has a claim in law to.
    Schedule 2, Part 1, paragraph 1, states that the following may be unfair:
    (2) A term which has the object or effect of inappropriately excluding
    or limiting the legal rights of the consumer in relation to the trader
    … including the option of offsetting a debt owed to the trader
    against any claim which the consumer may have against the
    trader

    So if work is still needed to bring the works within conformity of the contract and/or OP has suffered any quantifiable loss that they would not have otherwise suffered if the contract had been completed correctly, then OP is entitled to hold back that sum but should pay the rest. That is providing it has fallen due under the terms of the contract. If the amount isn't due yet then its not due yet.
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    soul_fool wrote: »
    They are rectifying the issues, but it's adding yet more delays. All the problems have been their doing as well. For instance, the 4 occasions where they ordered or fitted the wrong glass/windows were because the guvnor didn't take any notes when we were going through what we wanted.


    The latest issue, last Friday, where the wrong porch doors were fitted will take about 10 days to resolve as they will need to measure and order new ones.


    It is more to do with the inconvenience of the delays and stress caused to my heavily pregnant wife than any monetary costs we have suffered.


    There was no completion time mentioned in the contract, but the owner has admitted he said 10 days originally and has overrun significantly.

    Unfortunately, claims for distress and inconvenience are only allowed for certain types of contract - where the provision of the contract itself is for relaxation, enjoyment and peace of mind.

    Even in those cases, the amounts awarded are usually trivial compared to the level of inconvenience & distress suffered.
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • soul_fool
    soul_fool Posts: 11 Forumite
    Thanks. But in terms of pure inconvenience and delay, is this something that has to be agreed upon by client and contractor?


    Part of the quote was to get the job finished in 10 days (not mentioned in the contract but admitted by the contractor). If they had said at the start it would take them 5 weeks, they wouldn't have got the job.


    Just because all works have eventually been completed, I don't feel that warrants full payment. Theoretically, they could take 2 years to finish the job but as long as all the windows are in and we got what we asked for they would be entitled to the full amount?
  • Aylesbury_Duck
    Aylesbury_Duck Posts: 13,874
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
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    It comes down to the agreement you have with them. What does it say about timely completion and did you specify/agree any deductions if deadlines were missed? If you absolutely needed it done within a certain timeframe you needed to have agreed that at the outset. In the same way that you wouldn't have contracted them had you known they would take so long, they may not have taken on the job if you made full payment conditional upon completion in a certain timeframe.
  • Aylesbury_Duck
    Aylesbury_Duck Posts: 13,874
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    Seeing as this seems to have become the thread that's running, here's my reply from the duplicate thread in the DIY section.

    It sounds a nightmare. If you're going to go for compensation or a discount, you need to quantify your losses. I assume you have a way of attributing parts of the £15k to the relevant parts of the job, so you have some way of attributing losses or withholding the appropriate amount of money until the element is completed properly? Beyond that, you're dependent upon the firm agreeing that they've done a poor job for you and making a deduction to recognise that. My thoughts on the various elements are below. Stick to the factual and get rid of the drama - you stand a better chance of achieving something if you are factual and assertive rather than talking about things like pregnancy and the risk of being burgled.
    soul_fool wrote: »
    Hi,

    We recently employed a company to install new windows in our house, dismantle the front porch and build a new, bigger one. This was a smaller company than others we had quotes from and we liked that they were straightforward with their quote and didn't slowly chip away at it like the other companies did - making out they were doing us a favour.

    Anyway, the whole process has been a complete headache. We were originally told it would take about 10 days but they've been here 3.5 weeks now and it still isn't finished. I think it'll probably take 5 weeks in total to get done. Basically the guy has come clean to me and said he has a bigger job that has had some issues and so he's taken workers off of our job to prioritise the other one. Below are some of the main problems we've experienced:

    1. They ordered the wrong glass for the landing. As at today, the glass still hasn’t been swapped out. Withhold the money for this element until finished.

    2. The window configuration in the small bedroom is wrong. We have 2 fan lights where we asked for one. Withhold the money for this element until finished.

    3. We have a hole in the outer layer of our conservatory roof due to falling debris when fitting the back bedroom window. No care was taken to protect the roof. Get a quote to replace the element of the damaged roof and withhold a sum of that amount. I expect the glazier will claim this on their insurance to get it fixed.

    4. Despite asking on more than one occasion for them to be filled, we were left with significant holes (fist size) in our brickwork on both the upper and lower bay windows for the best part of 2 weeks. This was during a period of significant wet weather that left ourselves at risk of damp. Presumably you didn't suffer from damp, so is there a loss here or not?
    Have the holes been filled satisfactorily now?


    5. The skip was left on our shared drive for a week longer than promised. What loss did you suffer here?

    6. On more than one occasion, we were told the builders were due to start the following day only for them not to turn up. What loss did you suffer here?

    7. On multiple occasions the fitters did not complete a full day’s work, instead being pulled off of our job to complete work on another. There was a complete lack of communication regarding this and it has contributed to our job being delayed significantly. On days when they didn’t turn up as we had been told they would, we had left the back gates unlocked for them. They were therefore left unlocked and unattended all day. What loss did you suffer here? Were you burgled?

    7. Insufficient protection to our front door and the newly installed bay window when taking down the porch. This has resulted in damage to both the door and frame. Get a quote to repair/replace the damage and withhold a sum of that amount. I expect the glazier will claim this on their insurance to get it fixed.

    8. The wrong glass has been ordered and fitted to the front panels of the porch. We asked for clear and they ordered reeded. Withhold the money for this element until finished.

    9. The wrong glass has been ordered and fitted to the porch doors. We told them on more than one occasion what we wanted but, again, no notes were taken and so we have been left with the wrong glass and design. Withhold the money for this element until finished.

    10. Both the shared gate and our garden gate left wide open on one occasion after they left for the day. Far from ideal when we’ve had a spate of burglaries in the area recently. What loss did you suffer here? Were you burgled?

    My wife is 7 months pregnant Congratulations, but what has this got to do with anything?and we both wok full time Yum! ;). I am having to chase the guy on an almost daily basis via phone, text and email to discuss all the problems and find out why there's been little or no progress.

    The whole job is £15k, a massive amount of money for us, and the service we have received has been terrible frankly. I have paid a 30% deposit but am holding the rest back until we can agree on a suitable compensation amount.

    Does anyone have any idea what that should be? If we had known the significant delays and issues we'd have, we would've paid the extra £4,000 and gone with the bigger company who would have had this knocked out in 10 days.

    Does 10% or even 20% seem unreasonable?
  • soul_fool
    soul_fool Posts: 11 Forumite
    We have nothing in the contract about completion times and/or penalties (lesson learned there).


    The owner spoke to me last week to explain the issues they've been having and to say he admits the service we've received has not been good enough. So it's not as if they're oblivious to the fact or not willing to listen.


    I dropped him an email on Friday evening listing all the issues we've had and asking him how he'd feel if he were in our shoes and what does he think would be a suitable outcome. I haven't specifically mentioned compensation yet, but I absolutely am going to once the job is completed. And I will let him make the first offer.
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