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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 28th Mar 18, 11:35 AM
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    MSE Callum
    MSE News: Average council tax bill in England...
    • #1
    • 28th Mar 18, 11:35 AM
    MSE News: Average council tax bill in England... 28th Mar 18 at 11:35 AM
    The average band D council tax bill in England will rise by £80 this year, the Government has announced...
    Read the full story:
    'Average council tax bill in England set to rise by 5.1%'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
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Page 1
    • Danday
    • By Danday 28th Mar 18, 12:39 PM
    • 412 Posts
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    Danday
    • #2
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:39 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:39 PM
    When you take into account the level of annual inflation together with the 3% precept for social care, I believe that it could have been much higher. In reality council tax income is not effectively increasing if your ignore the social care element - it remains the same as last year as adjusted for inflation.
    I doubt that many will object to the extra 3% if that money finds its way into the social care budget, much the same that a special tax for the NHS would raise no eyebrows. We have to get on top of both of these which are incidentally linked. The more funding that is made available to both can only increase the services that both supply. I would add that looking at my council tax bill here in Surrey, the precept for the towns within county are showing a 21% increase!
    • CIS
    • By CIS 28th Mar 18, 12:46 PM
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    CIS
    • #3
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:46 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:46 PM
    The amount of income tax (which worked its way through to the councils via gov funding) is not going down yet council tax is going up as council's need to raise monies to offset those cuts. It wouldn't be so bad if they balanced out however where they are both going up (or at least one isn't going down) then you are being hit from both ends. Any extra increases, such as the social care charge, is simply adding more burden on to people to try and pay it.

    I can't see why an extra 'tax' for the NHS is required, that is funded by the already existing national insurance and income tax systems. Creating an 'NHS tax' is simply a political stunt to try and get around any stigma from increasing Income Tax and NI.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 28th Mar 18, 12:51 PM
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    Oakdene
    • #4
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:51 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:51 PM
    Well where I live in West Wales we have just been hit with a 12.5% increase on last year, however we are still ( I think) the cheapest in Wales. My band B property is £947.41 a year.

    That said we have has very little increases in the past so we have been hit in one big go as opposed to having the increase year on year if that makes sense.
    Dwy galon, un dyhead,
    Dwy dafod ond un iaith,
    Dwy raff yn cydio’n ddolen,
    Dau enaid ond un taith.


    • Witchfinder General
    • By Witchfinder General 28th Mar 18, 12:54 PM
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    Witchfinder General
    • #5
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:54 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:54 PM
    6% rise for us this year. NHS is a black hole that will never be satisfied. Scrap it.
    "One of the points brought up previously is how little tax the self employed/owners of ltd companies pay....."
    • Danday
    • By Danday 28th Mar 18, 12:58 PM
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    Danday
    • #6
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:58 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Mar 18, 12:58 PM
    6% rise for us this year. NHS is a black hole that will never be satisfied. Scrap it.
    Originally posted by Witchfinder General
    And what would you replace it with and who would be paying for it. Don't tell me - take out an insurance policy. Those on low incomes and/or benefits couldn't afford to pay for such a policy.

    The idea of those who have the income must pay to compensate for those who don't have the funds.

    That is the bedrock that the NHS and our welfare system relies on.

    If the government can find the funds to pay millions to an African version of the Spice Girls, hand out prepaid debit cards in India I fail to understand why they can't find the funds to get our NHS and Social Care system on an even keel.
    Last edited by Danday; 28-03-2018 at 1:08 PM.
    • Witchfinder General
    • By Witchfinder General 28th Mar 18, 1:01 PM
    • 342 Posts
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    Witchfinder General
    • #7
    • 28th Mar 18, 1:01 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Mar 18, 1:01 PM
    And what would you replace it with and who would be paying for it. Don't tell me - take out an insurance policy. Those on low incomes and/or benefits couldn't afford to pay for such a policy.

    The idea of those who have the income must pay to compensate for those who don't have the funds.

    That is the bedrock that the NHS and our welfare system relies on.
    Originally posted by Danday
    Pay your own way.

    Don’t you have a permanent lifetime ban Andy - I think you do.
    "One of the points brought up previously is how little tax the self employed/owners of ltd companies pay....."
    • Danday
    • By Danday 28th Mar 18, 1:22 PM
    • 412 Posts
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    Danday
    • #8
    • 28th Mar 18, 1:22 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Mar 18, 1:22 PM
    Pay your own way.

    Don’t you have a permanent lifetime ban Andy - I think you do.
    Originally posted by Witchfinder General
    Do you think you could expand on how you would propose to include those who have only benefits as an income or maybe pensioners that have to rely on the State Pension topped up with Pension Credit?

    As for the second paragraph the only time I have ever been banned was from a pub in my teenage years! Andy???
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 28th Mar 18, 1:37 PM
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    PasturesNew
    • #9
    • 28th Mar 18, 1:37 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Mar 18, 1:37 PM
    I'd stick some more bands on top.

    While somebody living in a Band A bedsit/1-bed tiny house might be paying one whole month's take home pay to the council tax .... I doubt that the £2million super-mansion in Band H up the road is paying a whole month's household income to council tax, it'll be just a drop in their vast ocean of funds.

    Add I and J on top for "really bigguns".

    Proportionately, the single/low income households shoulder a lot of the burden.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 28th Mar 18, 1:43 PM
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    Oakdene
    I'd stick some more bands on top.

    While somebody living in a Band A bedsit/1-bed tiny house might be paying one whole month's take home pay to the council tax .... I doubt that the £2million super-mansion in Band H up the road is paying a whole month's household income to council tax, it'll be just a drop in their vast ocean of funds.

    Add I and J on top for "really bigguns".

    Proportionately, the single/low income households shoulder a lot of the burden.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    We have 'I' bands here, the amount for the year (including the payment to police) is £2842.00
    Dwy galon, un dyhead,
    Dwy dafod ond un iaith,
    Dwy raff yn cydio’n ddolen,
    Dau enaid ond un taith.


    • CIS
    • By CIS 28th Mar 18, 1:46 PM
    • 11,354 Posts
    • 6,634 Thanks
    CIS
    I'd stick some more bands on top.

    While somebody living in a Band A bedsit/1-bed tiny house might be paying one whole month's take home pay to the council tax .... I doubt that the £2million super-mansion in Band H up the road is paying a whole month's household income to council tax, it'll be just a drop in their vast ocean of funds.

    Add I and J on top for "really bigguns".

    Proportionately, the single/low income households shoulder a lot of the burden.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    The easiest and quickest way to do it but they are running scared, politically.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 28th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
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    marliepanda
    The easiest and quickest way to do it but they are running scared, politically.
    Originally posted by CIS
    Plus all the pension crediters not paying with thousands in the bank!
    • venison
    • By venison 28th Mar 18, 2:58 PM
    • 3,782 Posts
    • 5,371 Thanks
    venison
    The one thing I fail to understand is the difference from one area to another in Council Tax Support.
    Where we live they only pay 9% of the bill and yet just 2 miles down the road they pay 25%, ok its 2 different councils but the difference is staggering, almost £4 a week on the lowest band.
    "For the many not the few"
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 28th Mar 18, 3:13 PM
    • 6,896 Posts
    • 15,057 Thanks
    marliepanda
    The one thing I fail to understand is the difference from one area to another in Council Tax Support.
    Where we live they only pay 9% of the bill and yet just 2 miles down the road they pay 25%, ok its 2 different councils but the difference is staggering, almost £4 a week on the lowest band.
    Originally posted by venison
    Its set by each council, so they decide what level of help they offer. A council with a lot of money can afford to subsidise its people living there more, perhaps, than a poorer council.

    Or maybe the council is poorer BECAUSE it offers higher discounts to those out of work.

    9% of the bill is pretty low, here our non pension age Ctax support is capped at 80%, so the LOWEST anyone would pay is 20% of the bill.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 28th Mar 18, 3:40 PM
    • 7,054 Posts
    • 19,906 Thanks
    Doc N
    Communities Secretary Sajid Javid said: "Council tax in England is 7.6% lower in real terms than it was when we came to Government and we have introduced a legal right for local taxpayers to veto excessive increases."

    What a pack of lies!

    It's lower in real terms (higher in hard cash, of course) simply because councils no longer provide most of the services that they used to provide free of charge and now charge for them. And you pay that in addition to your council tax.

    They also no longer provide much, if any, care for the elderly, decent education, or proper road maintenance.

    Sajid Javid's 'lower in real terms' is a total fiction because of all the extra costs we now have to pay, and that includes all the unnecessary car repairs caused by the third world road network that this government has landed us with.
    • WhenIam64
    • By WhenIam64 28th Mar 18, 4:37 PM
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    WhenIam64
    t's lower in real terms (higher in hard cash, of course) simply because councils no longer provide most of the services that they used to provide free of charge and now charge for them. And you pay that in addition to your council tax.
    I think you have summed up the situation quite clearly. There is a wholesale change in the way the government views its obligations.

    For example, the I've commented on Mortgage Support where it appears that your pay into a national "insurance" scheme and you find the rules of insurance are movable. We end up not collecting an insurance pay-out but a further loan. Not like any normal insurance scheme but that is the system we voted for.

    It is up to each individual to decide if the new way is better than the old way. I make no assumptions about personal circumstances as I have been lucky in life as it is a lottery.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 28th Mar 18, 4:53 PM
    • 412 Posts
    • 72 Thanks
    Danday
    Plus all the pension crediters not paying with thousands in the bank!
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    Pension Credit is treated now as Income Support and you are required to notify the DWP of any increase in income or capital.

    Yes I agree in the past once on Pension Credit you could win the lottery and still get your Pension Credit payments.
    • Caddyman
    • By Caddyman 28th Mar 18, 5:12 PM
    • 341 Posts
    • 218 Thanks
    Caddyman
    Within 15 years, Council Tax, if it still exists in its present form, will normalise to mortgage like proportions for I suspect, the majority of homeowners. So my current £150 per month that goes out to Council Tax on top of my monthly mortgage payment, will undoubtedly double. I fully expect to be getting ripped off to the tune of at least £300 per calender month by 2030. Council Tax will never decrease, it will increase significantly for most. It doesn't get more depressing I'm afraid and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.
    • venison
    • By venison 28th Mar 18, 6:39 PM
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    venison
    I suspect and have even read stuff to support the suspicion that by 2021/22 the rate support grant will have been abolished (thats the amount the govt gives to councils) and these "higher" increases will be the norm for the next 3 years and beyond.
    "For the many not the few"
    • glider3560
    • By glider3560 28th Mar 18, 7:22 PM
    • 3,871 Posts
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    glider3560
    I'd stick some more bands on top.

    While somebody living in a Band A bedsit/1-bed tiny house might be paying one whole month's take home pay to the council tax .... I doubt that the £2million super-mansion in Band H up the road is paying a whole month's household income to council tax, it'll be just a drop in their vast ocean of funds.

    Add I and J on top for "really bigguns".

    Proportionately, the single/low income households shoulder a lot of the burden.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    Also, I'd add a surcharge for households with more than 2 adults (i.e. houseshares).

    A four bedroom Band D property could be housing a family with three children with only one income from the parents, whereas it could also be housing four (or more) adults with four salaries.

    In fact, let's just scrap council tax altogether and increase the cost of general taxation to cover it (income tax, capital gains, corporation and VAT).

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