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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 26th Sep 17, 4:57 PM
    • 137Posts
    • 43Thanks
    MSE Karl
    MSE Poll: Do you support renationalisation of rail, energy, water and more?
    • #1
    • 26th Sep 17, 4:57 PM
    MSE Poll: Do you support renationalisation of rail, energy, water and more? 26th Sep 17 at 4:57 PM
    Poll started 26 September 2017

    Do you support renationalisation of rail, energy, water and more?

    This week, Labour reaffirmed its commitment to taking back into public ownership a raft of services which in the 1980s were privatised (usually by floating them on the stock market). Those arguing for privatisation often focus on increased efficiency due to competition. Those against often say firms do what’s best for shareholders, not for consumers.


    For EACH service below please vote on your view on whether it should be renationalised.



    Did you vote? Are you surprised at the results so far? Have your say below. To see the results from last time, click here.

    If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

    Thanks!


    This Forum tip was included in MoneySavingExpert.com's weekly email!
    Last edited by MSE Karl; 26-09-2017 at 5:16 PM.
Page 1
    • Stockie
    • By Stockie 26th Sep 17, 6:51 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    Stockie
    • #2
    • 26th Sep 17, 6:51 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Sep 17, 6:51 PM
    There's several like water and phone where I'd like a hybrid where the state owns and maintains the infrastructure but private companies provide the services. BT openreach do such a bad job at times at getting stuff sorted, and we could have lower prices across the sector if they didn't have a (near) monopoly.
    Loving the Big Bang Theory!
    My views and opinions are my own and do not represent those of my employer(s) or anyone else
    • krisl
    • By krisl 26th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    krisl
    • #3
    • 26th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    I’m a labour voter but some of the nationalisation plans in the recent manifesto are based on ideology rather than logic.

    The rail industry could easily be nationalised as the franchises end and there’s heavy subsidy in the current model. How much better it could be run though I don’t know - the issues in the south regarding the role of guards could easily be replicated over the whole network I’d there was a single rail company.

    For energy, it would be rediculously expensive to buy all the power generation, and I doubt it would help much - the profits of the energy providers may seem high, but as a percentage of revenue they’re pretty minor.

    The postal service is something I don’t really care about - there’s something archaic about getting a piece of paper delivered every day. It needs to be allowed to transition into a small parcel service.

    For all the BT bashing in the press, I think they’ve done a pretty good job getting VDSL2 cabinets to cover the percentage coverage they have done.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 26th Sep 17, 8:23 PM
    • 6,166 Posts
    • 10,596 Thanks
    Gavin83
    • #4
    • 26th Sep 17, 8:23 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Sep 17, 8:23 PM
    I think all essential industries/services should have a state owned option. I'd have no issue with a privately run company in the same sector to give the consumer a choice but the state owned option should exist.
    • worried jim
    • By worried jim 26th Sep 17, 8:32 PM
    • 10,662 Posts
    • 16,703 Thanks
    worried jim
    • #5
    • 26th Sep 17, 8:32 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Sep 17, 8:32 PM
    If it happens I'll get a job with them. That's me with my feet up for the rest of my career. Zero fuxks given.
    "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 26th Sep 17, 8:58 PM
    • 10,004 Posts
    • 12,477 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #6
    • 26th Sep 17, 8:58 PM
    • #6
    • 26th Sep 17, 8:58 PM
    Does no-one remember how awful these services were when state-owned?

    There was a waiting list for phone lines, and if you were in an area with a shortage of external plant you could be waiting years.

    Trains were awful. Passenger journey numbers were falling.

    Everywhere kept going on strike because the government could always be held to ransom by the unions (and the government didn't care if it lost money, because it's not the government's money it's spending).

    Private 118 directory enquiries services are pointless and will die a natural death now we can look up things on the internet.

    Why don't we nationalise all the supermarkets as well, after all if water should be nationalised why not food?

    Incidentally, water in Scotland (and possibly Wales?) is government-owned.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • macskin
    • By macskin 27th Sep 17, 1:19 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    macskin
    • #7
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:19 AM
    Sold the family silver
    • #7
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:19 AM
    Selling of state owned assets to fund small tax cuts and say they have balanced the books have instead sold the family silver of on the cheep and it is only now that there is nothing left to sell do we see how they have failed our future generations. Yes they made a small sum of money at once making them selfs look good. If they had not sold the family silver of to be asset stripped to the bone and not invest in the company the state owned assets would of given government after government there profits which would of resulted in over time brining in more money than they were sold for and keep bringing in more money.
    It is amazing how many state owned assets that the UK government has sold of now belong to foreign governments resulting in the British public funding not our own tax breaks but that of other countries.
    Even in Brexit we tell the French government how we will deal with Brexit long before article 50 is singed this was done when the PM had talked with Nissan
    • 9411john
    • By 9411john 27th Sep 17, 7:18 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    9411john
    • #8
    • 27th Sep 17, 7:18 AM
    Location, location, location!
    • #8
    • 27th Sep 17, 7:18 AM
    I suspect that some of your poll results will be heavily dependent upon the voter's location as well as how internet savvy they are (e.g. to switch energy supplier). I can remember the good (sic) old days of overpaid nationalised industry employees who would not know what a proper days job was and who would hold the country to ransom at a whim! Even today we have some 'nationalised' areas where people keep bleating about their pay forgetting how good their pensions are compared to the vast number of people in the private industries. However, I feel that there is a role for government either as share holder or by imposing legal requirements (with heavy fines for non compliance) in all essential services.
    • spikyone
    • By spikyone 27th Sep 17, 7:29 AM
    • 450 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    spikyone
    • #9
    • 27th Sep 17, 7:29 AM
    • #9
    • 27th Sep 17, 7:29 AM
    Iím a labour voter but some of the nationalisation plans in the recent manifesto are based on ideology rather than logic.
    Originally posted by krisl
    Let's be honest, all of these nationalisation plans are based on ideology. I've yet to hear a worthwhile argument for any of the proposed services being nationalised, other than Corbyn's socialist dream. Given that Labour also want to give the unions more power, we'd see a never ending cycle of strikes by the "poor underpaid workers" and price increases/tax increases when Corbyn rolls over and gives them pay rises that are double the rate of the private sector.

    There's several like water and phone where I'd like a hybrid where the state owns and maintains the infrastructure but private companies provide the services. BT openreach do such a bad job at times at getting stuff sorted, and we could have lower prices across the sector if they didn't have a (near) monopoly.
    Originally posted by Stockie
    What you're suggesting with Openreach is giving the part that is a monopoly back to the government, where it would be a monopoly with public sector inefficiency and wastefulness. Lower prices is the exact opposite of what it will achieve.
    • webwiz
    • By webwiz 27th Sep 17, 8:01 AM
    • 209 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    webwiz
    Unbelievable
    It's understandable that young people who have never suffered under nationalisation might vote for it. But for those 65+ indicates memory loss.
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 27th Sep 17, 9:38 AM
    • 26,497 Posts
    • 69,892 Thanks
    pollypenny
    French and German governments seem to do very well with shared ownership of rail and postal companies - including those in the UK.

    Certain things, such as water supply, should remain 'services' not never at the mercy of profiteering companies. The same could be said for transport.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • HD2
    • By HD2 27th Sep 17, 9:58 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HD2
    No
    NO government, in the history of the world, has EVER run ANYTHING efficiently, effectively - or for the benefit of the end-user.

    The secret is Darwinism (and always was and always WILL be)

    Diversity + Competition = Progress

    Sadly, 'Nature is red in tooth and claw' is not acceptable to our squeamish politicians, who seek to deny Darwinism - and have as much success as Canute.
    • sensibleshoes
    • By sensibleshoes 27th Sep 17, 10:28 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    sensibleshoes
    Bus
    Surprised to see National Express as the example given for bus service as it doesn't operate what I describe as bus service.

    Companies such as First & Go Ahead would be my examples and yes definitely renationalise as the privatisation of the bus network is a failure for passengers but great for shareholders.
    • Gillian Brown
    • By Gillian Brown 27th Sep 17, 10:51 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Gillian Brown
    I remember the time before rail privitisation. The trains were always filthy both inside and out and the timekeeping was just awful. As there were no profits no one had any interest in improving the service. The unions were supreme so were always on strike. Ok it's not perfect today especially some services, but it's heaps better than it was. Also nationalised we would not be able to switch our essential services for a better deal as we can now.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 27th Sep 17, 11:08 AM
    • 5,365 Posts
    • 8,570 Thanks
    Nick_C
    I used British Rail a lot in the 1970s and 80s

    Inter City trains were clean, comfortable, and affordable. You could get a good freshly cooked meal on most long distance trains for a fair price.

    BR was well run but was starved of investment.

    The High Speed Train / IC125 was world class, and is still running. The IC225 never achieved 225 kph in service because the tracks and signalling were never upgraded to an acceptable standard, and that remains the case. The APT got as far as test running, ran into a few problems, and the Government pulled the plug. The Italians took the idea and produced the Pendolino, which ironically now runs on the WCML.

    Trains used to be a service. Now they are a profit centre. Less profitable services such as London to Blackpool have been closed, devastating for residents, visitors, and the conference business.

    And yet the privatised train services remain heavily subsidised monopoly services.

    I'm not in favour of wholesale renationalisation but we should take the railways back in house as franchises expire. ECML operated an excellent service during its recent spell in state control. Letting a new franchise on this route was purely idealogical.
    • Eric_the_half_a_bee
    • By Eric_the_half_a_bee 27th Sep 17, 11:14 AM
    • 1,800 Posts
    • 9,833 Thanks
    Eric_the_half_a_bee
    The High Speed Train / IC125 was world class.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Rose tinted spectacles. Yes it was a world class diesel locomotive, but it was only needed because, unlike most of Western Europe, the state owned BR had failed to invest in the electrification of its network.
    • BMW51K
    • By BMW51K 27th Sep 17, 12:47 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    BMW51K
    If you'd experienced them before privatisation ....
    It doesn't matter what political party you vote for; what does matter is if you are a consumer or not of the services. In all of the services sectors, when run by government and civil services they lacked any kind of commitment to customer service (as there was no alternative customers could go to) or to improving their price performance, and the management had a very short term view that severely limited their commitment in investment to improve their services. Civil servants just do not take risks or apply entrepreneurial decision making - they want a cosy life.
    It's almost certainly the case that if BT was in government hands, we'd be way behind on the many advances in telephony, let alone having high speed internet in most parts of the UK. Ok BT are less than perfect, but they were pretty abysmal when managed by whichever government happened to be in power.
    Similarly, the pressure on water companies to improve water supply and quality, and to tackle leaks is more easily applied by civil servants (i.e. OFWAT) who do not have to be responsible for delivering those improvements, or who are measured by short term political issues, not long term sustainable businesses.

    And who's memory has faded so badly that they think British Rail was a good service that always ran on time, and had clean trains? That organisation was so large that it just could not cope, and had old dilapidated rolling stock.
    • donny jim
    • By donny jim 27th Sep 17, 12:56 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    donny jim
    Nationalisation
    I didn't vote because you didn't have a fourth option, which is a combination of the two. I think it would be good for public and private to compete for the rail franchises. North eastern rail was doing well in public ownership, the Tories should not have re privatised it.
    • donny jim
    • By donny jim 27th Sep 17, 1:07 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    donny jim
    Open reach
    There's several like water and phone where I'd like a hybrid where the state owns and maintains the infrastructure but private companies provide the services. BT openreach do such a bad job at times at getting stuff sorted, and we could have lower prices across the sector if they didn't have a (near) monopoly.
    Originally posted by Stockie
    I think the problem here is that the regulator is too weak, if open reach had to pay say £10p.d. ( based on 5day week =£50p.w. )from the day a problem is reported, I think things would get better. Possibly more for businesses.
    • donny jim
    • By donny jim 27th Sep 17, 1:18 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    donny jim
    Other countries
    Selling of state owned assets to fund small tax cuts and say they have balanced the books have instead sold the family silver of on the cheep and it is only now that there is nothing left to sell do we see how they have failed our future generations. Yes they made a small sum of money at once making them selfs look good. If they had not sold the family silver of to be asset stripped to the bone and not invest in the company the state owned assets would of given government after government there profits which would of resulted in over time brining in more money than they were sold for and keep bringing in more money.
    It is amazing how many state owned assets that the UK government has sold of now belong to foreign governments resulting in the British public funding not our own tax breaks but that of other countries.
    Even in Brexit we tell the French government how we will deal with Brexit long before article 50 is singed this was done when the PM had talked with Nissan
    Originally posted by macskin
    Yes a lot of our utilities are owned by foreign countries, does anyone know how they do it in their country. Could we not use the same model ?, just a thought.
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