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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Steve
    • By MSE Steve 2nd Apr 17, 7:46 AM
    • 77Posts
    • 29Thanks
    MSE Steve
    MSE News: The ‘Great 0% ads scam’
    • #1
    • 2nd Apr 17, 7:46 AM
    MSE News: The ‘Great 0% ads scam’ 2nd Apr 17 at 7:46 AM
    The world of 0% credit cards advertising is a ‘wild west’ with far too few rules to protect consumers, a new MoneySavingExpert.com report reveals....
    Read the full story:
    'The ‘Great 0% ads scam’ – when 43 months 0% isn’t 43 months 0%'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
Page 1
    • oldagetraveller
    • By oldagetraveller 2nd Apr 17, 10:22 AM
    • 3,306 Posts
    • 1,803 Thanks
    oldagetraveller
    • #2
    • 2nd Apr 17, 10:22 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Apr 17, 10:22 AM
    I suspect Steve needs to look up the definition of "scam" before creating his misleading headline!
    R.I.P. U.K. Democracy.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 2nd Apr 17, 10:34 AM
    • 7,096 Posts
    • 3,932 Thanks
    chattychappy
    • #3
    • 2nd Apr 17, 10:34 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Apr 17, 10:34 AM
    The "Great MSE Headline Scam" !
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 2nd Apr 17, 10:58 AM
    • 1,470 Posts
    • 1,332 Thanks
    TheShape
    • #4
    • 2nd Apr 17, 10:58 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Apr 17, 10:58 AM
    The article mentions terms/promotional periods being in the small print rather than in the headline of the offer and that being a problem.

    Given that everyone should be reading the small print anyway, it shouldn't be too much of a problem unless MSE is suggesting people needn't bother checking the small print.
    • duncansoton
    • By duncansoton 2nd Apr 17, 11:07 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    duncansoton
    • #5
    • 2nd Apr 17, 11:07 AM
    • #5
    • 2nd Apr 17, 11:07 AM
    "People rightly focus on these offers to choose their card. However, many are then rightly left angry that the deal they get isn’t close to the one advertised, yet they’re stuck with it.."

    People are offered a deal which they can take or leave, they're not stuck with it at all.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 2nd Apr 17, 11:56 AM
    • 13,098 Posts
    • 9,003 Thanks
    Voyager2002
    • #6
    • 2nd Apr 17, 11:56 AM
    • #6
    • 2nd Apr 17, 11:56 AM
    Steve needs to learn how to write: the article is full of split infinitives.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 2nd Apr 17, 11:56 AM
    • 25,854 Posts
    • 13,059 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    • #7
    • 2nd Apr 17, 11:56 AM
    • #7
    • 2nd Apr 17, 11:56 AM
    I agree 100% with Duncan - if something goes wrong it is very easy to unravel a transfer and put everybody back to he situation they were in before they began.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • lovinituk
    • By lovinituk 2nd Apr 17, 12:02 PM
    • 5,353 Posts
    • 6,045 Thanks
    lovinituk
    • #8
    • 2nd Apr 17, 12:02 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Apr 17, 12:02 PM
    Are MSE employing Daily Mail journalists now?
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 2nd Apr 17, 12:06 PM
    • 1,691 Posts
    • 1,464 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    • #9
    • 2nd Apr 17, 12:06 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Apr 17, 12:06 PM
    You lot really are a harsh audience
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
  • jamesd
    Yes, the ability to give the headline term to one in a thousand or fewer applicants does need to be addressed and may be a scam, depending on actual percentages used by firms for each deal term.

    Another thing to be aware of is the effect of minimum payments over long deals, with even 1% greatly reducing the amount at 0% over time. For those who want to preserve their ability to get long deals or stoozers trying to maximise credit at lowest cost, spending the minimum payment amount every month is a useful tool. You'll pay interest on that at least between day of spend and day the payment is taken but in the early months or years it can be a better deal than more applications or balance transfer fees. 0% for spending deals will be better for those with ample potential credit, this is for those pushing closer to the edge of what they can get.
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 3rd Apr 17, 7:32 AM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    I can barely make 24 months work, and 36 months just wears out the balance. Nothing to transfer to the next deal!
    • battyboimatt
    • By battyboimatt 3rd Apr 17, 11:23 AM
    • 600 Posts
    • 241 Thanks
    battyboimatt
    As Trump would say. Fake News.
    • robin58
    • By robin58 3rd Apr 17, 12:36 PM
    • 2,705 Posts
    • 3,269 Thanks
    robin58
    So it's a 'scam'

    So why are MSE promoting these deals with a big fanfare on this weeks email saying 'you could save 1000's' but according to the small print l can't.
    The more I live, the more I learn.
    The more I learn, the more I grow.
    The more I grow, the more I see.
    The more I see, the more I know.
    The more I know, the more I see,
    How little I know.!!
  • jamesd
    You can save (or make by stoozing) thousands but the advertising isn't as clear as it might be about what you can expect to get, with you usually not really knowing until after you've applied and reduced your chance to get a deal elsewhere if you don't like the terms of the deal you really get. You could say:

    1. apply to card A that says 40 months but after a hard credit search get 24 months.
    2. apply for card B that advertises 36 months and would have given you 30 months but now with the extra search making your credit record worse will only give you 20 months.

    This means that card A not telling you that you will get 24 months has cost you the ability to get 30 months from card B. If you'd have known before the hard search you'd have moved on to B before completing the application for A.

    What A has done is bait and switch advertising that has made both you and card issuer B worse off.

    So there is a clear financial incentive to mistreat applicants in this way which needs to be countered somehow. Quotation searches with "no worse than x if you gave us accurate details" undertakings are probably the best solution for those doing online comparisons but the advertising and percentages getting the advertised terms also seem to need work, either via trade body code of practice or regulation.
    Last edited by jamesd; 03-04-2017 at 9:30 PM.
  • jamesd
    In CP 17/10, mainly about persistent debt, the FCA makes the observations below in respect of this issue. Is the MSE story a response to the FCA after having taken its position into account? There appears to be some linkage given the mention of further work in both the MSE story and the FCA's observations, so it appears that some congratulations to MSE are in order for at least some initial results.

    "1.19 As noted in Annex 1 of the CCMS final findings report, a number of respondents to the interim
    report drew attention to an issue regarding credit card firms’ offers of 0% introductory periods
    for purchases and balance transfers. Since then we have taken supervisory action in a number
    of cases where we found firms’ financial promotions for such offers did not make clear that
    the length of the introductory period was subject to a customer’s status, and as such was not
    available in full to all customers whose applications were accepted. Following our action, the
    firms in question amended their promotions to make this much clearer.

    1.20 We would like to take this opportunity to remind firms that there are a number of relevant rules
    in this area, including the high level requirement that financial promotions must be clear, fair
    and not misleading. Firms must also ensure that each communication and financial promotion
    is presented in a way that is likely to be understood by the average member of the group to
    which it is directed and does not disguise, omit, diminish or obscure important information
    or statements. In relation to APR, our rules require that at least 51% of customers should be
    expected to be charged the representative APR or better.

    1.21 In our view it should be obvious to firms that financial promotions for credit cards with 0%
    introductory periods should represent a genuine offer, and make clear, if it is the case, that
    the advertised period is a maximum and that shorter periods may be offered to customers
    depending on their circumstances. We would have concerns if the headline rate or period were
    not available to a significant number of consumers or if any limitations on its availability were
    not made clear. This is an area where we will undertake further work during the course of the
    year to look at the issue and consider the case for additional rules or guidance if necessary.
    If we decide to propose new rules and guidance we would consult on this alongside any
    proposals on changing repayment options, as discussed in Chapter 6.
    "
    Last edited by jamesd; 04-04-2017 at 3:20 AM.
    • phillw
    • By phillw 4th Apr 17, 7:40 AM
    • 2,367 Posts
    • 1,899 Thanks
    phillw
    1. apply to card A that says 40 months but after a hard credit search get 24 months.
    2. apply for card B that advertises 36 months and would have given you 30 months but now with the extra search making your credit record worse will only give you 20 months.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    I'm pretty sure they know that it penalises people who are trying to shop around for the best deal. So don't expect anything to change any time soon.

    The ASA should ban "up to" in advertising. It's always predatory.
  • jamesd
    I'm sure both the FCA and card issuers know it but the FCA seems to have at least some interest in improving disclosure, unlike the firms, which can benefit by hiding things.

    I don't agree that up to is always predatory in advertising. If there is disclosure of what you'll get before an application search it could be fine.
    • takman
    • By takman 4th Apr 17, 9:12 AM
    • 3,785 Posts
    • 3,467 Thanks
    takman
    The problem with this is that there are no facts or figures showing what percentage of people actually get the headline 0% length.


    Personally i have never got less than the headline 0% length on any card i have applied for in the last 5 years (roughly when i first got a 0% interest card).


    So MSE should do a survey and see what percentage of people get a lower 0% length compared to the people who get the full length or are declined.




    But if this is forced up lenders then i can see an easy solution for them. They will have a different credit card for each length of 0% interest they offer. If someone applies for the longest offer then 100% of those accepted will get it and if someone gets declined then they will be offered a different card with a shorter 0% period.
    So this will meet all the suggestions in the article and won't make any difference to the lenders or customers.
    Last edited by takman; 04-04-2017 at 9:16 AM.
    • oldagetraveller
    • By oldagetraveller 4th Apr 17, 11:50 AM
    • 3,306 Posts
    • 1,803 Thanks
    oldagetraveller
    No interest to pay on purchases for up to 28 months from account opening. We may offer you a 0% interest period of 25 or 22 months depending on your individual circumstances

    The above copied and pasted from Tesco Credit Card. Looks clear enough to me if applicants took the trouble to read it!
    I would assume that if a shorter period were to be offered then it would be advised of during or after the application. If not that would be naughty but not a "scam".
    R.I.P. U.K. Democracy.
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 4th Apr 17, 9:18 PM
    • 2,298 Posts
    • 1,095 Thanks
    Chrysalis
    poor article I feel.

    When I applied for my barclaycard I was aware it was an "up to" period, so they placed that text well enough that I noticed, I did actually get the full interest free period as well.
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