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  • archived user
    • #2
    • 19th Dec 16, 8:34 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Dec 16, 8:34 AM
    And so it goes on. The wholesale percentage of electricity in every bill just gets lower and lower, and bills keep on rising:

    BREAKDOWN OF ELECTRICITY CUSTOMER'S BILL

    2010/11 Wholesale Cost 51% Operational Costs 14% Environmental/Social Costs 4% Network Costs 26% VAT 5%

    2016/12 Wholesale Cost 32% Operational Costs 16% Environmental/Social Costs 20% Network Costs 27% VAT 5%

    Source: energy-uk.org.uk

    I wonder what the percentages might look like in 2020. Bear in mind the estimated £25M levy on consumers for the GBEnergy fail which is not included in the 2016/17 figures.
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 19th Dec 16, 9:38 AM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    • #3
    • 19th Dec 16, 9:38 AM
    • #3
    • 19th Dec 16, 9:38 AM
    What I want is cheap overnight electricity, without paying extra during the day. I can charge my hybrid car, and run the tumble dryer overnight, but not if I end up paying more during the day, bloody cheek.

    Design the smart meters properly, so that it sends out signals to appliances, via the ring main, or Wi-Fi. Obviously they have to sell smart timer modules you can plug into the mains sockets.

    Even without smart meters, if they just drop over night electricity prices, without raising day time prices, I'll jump on it without anyone asking.

    That should shift peak demand.
  • archived user
    • #4
    • 19th Dec 16, 9:44 AM
    • #4
    • 19th Dec 16, 9:44 AM
    What I want is cheap overnight electricity, without paying extra during the day. I can charge my hybrid car, and run the tumble dryer overnight, but not if I end up paying more during the day, bloody cheek.

    Design the smart meters properly, so that it sends out signals to appliances, via the ring main, or Wi-Fi. Obviously they have to sell smart timer modules you can plug into the mains sockets.

    Even without smart meters, if they just drop over night electricity prices, without raising day time prices, I'll jump on it without anyone asking.

    That should shift peak demand.
    Originally posted by Pincher
    The whole point of a smart grid is to push consumers away from high demand periods using price. Be careful what you wish for. This is how in works in Toronto where my daughter now lives:

    http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/electricsystem/residential/rates/Pages/resirates.aspx
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 19th Dec 16, 9:58 AM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    • #5
    • 19th Dec 16, 9:58 AM
    • #5
    • 19th Dec 16, 9:58 AM
    I WISH for cheap overnight electricity, WITHOUT paying extra during the day. They can do it without the trouble of smart meters.

    Let's face it, if single rate is 10p per kWh, but you pay 10p/5p for Economy 7, what meter will you be on?
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 19th Dec 16, 10:29 AM
    • 3,396 Posts
    • 1,862 Thanks
    lstar337
    • #6
    • 19th Dec 16, 10:29 AM
    • #6
    • 19th Dec 16, 10:29 AM
    The whole point of a smart grid is to push consumers away from high demand periods using price. Be careful what you wish for. This is how in works in Toronto where my daughter now lives:

    http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/electricsystem/residential/rates/Pages/resirates.aspx
    Originally posted by Hengus
    A nice sized PV array would take care of all those Peak units.
    • ChaunceyGardiner
    • By ChaunceyGardiner 19th Dec 16, 2:20 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    ChaunceyGardiner
    • #7
    • 19th Dec 16, 2:20 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Dec 16, 2:20 PM
    I WISH for cheap overnight electricity, WITHOUT paying extra during the day. They can do it without the trouble of smart meters.

    Let's face it, if single rate is 10p per kWh, but you pay 10p/5p for Economy 7, what meter will you be on?
    Originally posted by Pincher
    But the whole point of Economy 7 and its derivatives was to encourage demand for the base load outwith peak periods. The nuclear base load is in decline as reactors are being decommissioned without replacement. Renewables produce less or no energy overnight. If, eventually, everyone charges their electric cars overnight, this can only hasten Economy 7's demise.
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 19th Dec 16, 4:59 PM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    • #8
    • 19th Dec 16, 4:59 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Dec 16, 4:59 PM
    But the whole point of Economy 7 and its derivatives was to encourage demand for the base load outwith peak periods. The nuclear base load is in decline as reactors are being decommissioned without replacement. Renewables produce less or no energy overnight. If, eventually, everyone charges their electric cars overnight, this can only hasten Economy 7's demise.
    Originally posted by ChaunceyGardiner
    You seem to be saying it's a subtle hint that they don't want anybody on Economy 7.
    • joncombe
    • By joncombe 19th Dec 16, 7:26 PM
    • 277 Posts
    • 111 Thanks
    joncombe
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 16, 7:26 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 16, 7:26 PM
    And what would this £30 be spent on - the article doesn't say.

    The problem is very clear but I've seen no coherent solution. What do we do when it's dark and there is no wind. Nothing generated from solar. Next to nothing from wind power. No new fossil fuel power stations. Very limited nuclear power station capacity and pretty much no storage of electricity. That seems to be the future we are headed for now. What other renewables are there? Tidal perhaps but again it varies with time, so is not reliable.

    The truth is we need more power stations. The problem is fossil fuel power stations will now be heavily opposed (too much carbon dixiode) as will nuclear (too dangerous). I think sooner or later the Government is going to realise they can't please everyone and get on and build more power stations. But I fear it might take widespread power cuts for anything to be done.
    • ChaunceyGardiner
    • By ChaunceyGardiner 19th Dec 16, 7:41 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    ChaunceyGardiner
    You seem to be saying it's a subtle hint that they don't want anybody on Economy 7.
    Originally posted by Pincher
    No, I'm saying that Economy 7, as things stand, will become redundant.
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 19th Dec 16, 10:56 PM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    No, I'm saying that Economy 7, as things stand, will become redundant.
    Originally posted by ChaunceyGardiner
    Electric only households with storage heaters won't see it as redundant.

    In any case, the shortage is when there is peak load, so smoothing the demand with cheaper off peak price seems like a good solution.
  • archived user
    And what would this £30 be spent on - the article doesn't say.
    Originally posted by joncombe
    It will be used as a pay energy generators to keep old and inefficient power stations available for use in the event of high power demand or, for example, a nuclear power station safety shutdown and for more diesel generation farms.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/12/national-grid-two-coal-plants-to-get-77m-to-be-on-standby-this-winter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/17/dirty-diesel-generators-in-line-for-uk-subsidies/
    Last edited by Hengus; 20-12-2016 at 8:00 AM.
  • archived user
    A nice sized PV array would take care of all those Peak units.
    Originally posted by lstar337
    It would if the sun ever came out in December. Yesterday, my PV array generated 0.4kWhs. I had better put the Christmas turkey on today.
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