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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Faye
    • By MSE Faye 15th Aug 16, 10:10 AM
    • 146Posts
    • 55Thanks
    MSE Faye
    Energy customers overcharged in gas metering blunder - are you due a refund?
    • #1
    • 15th Aug 16, 10:10 AM
    Energy customers overcharged in gas metering blunder - are you due a refund? 15th Aug 16 at 10:10 AM
    Thousands of gas customers could be due a refund after E.On spotted a major flaw in the way some meters are read...
    Read the full story:
    'Energy customers overcharged in gas metering blunder - are you due a refund?'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
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Page 1
    • One-Eye
    • By One-Eye 15th Aug 16, 12:51 PM
    • 46,419 Posts
    • 7,139,924 Thanks
    One-Eye
    • #2
    • 15th Aug 16, 12:51 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Aug 16, 12:51 PM
    In 350 cases, E.on customers' metric meters were read as imperial, resulting in them being overcharged by 183%, and in 250 cases imperial meters were read as metric, resulting them being undercharged by 65%.
    I wonder if there are any customers with metric meters who supplied correct readings (ignoring the fractions of a cubic metre) who were charged as if this were cubic feet and thus payed less than 3% of what they should. There are 35.3147 cubic feet in a cubic metre.

    Utility companies can be hopeless. Somebody I know had a water meter fitted "downstream" of the t-joint where the water splits off to feed the upstairs. They are only ever charged for the water they use downstairs (cold water in the sink, washer) - the upstairs (toilet, bath, shower, and all hot water) is totally free. Their water usage comes out at about a sixth of their neighbours but the water company's systems fail to pick this up as unusual.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 15th Aug 16, 1:01 PM
    • 4,135 Posts
    • 1,684 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #3
    • 15th Aug 16, 1:01 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Aug 16, 1:01 PM
    E.on says at least 600 of its customers – both homes and businesses – are affected, and has warned it's discovered a "potentially industry-wide meter set-up issue"...

    In 350 cases, E.on customers' metric meters were read as imperial, resulting in them being overcharged by 183%, and in 250 cases imperial meters were read as metric, resulting them being undercharged by 65%.
    I read about this yesterday on the BBC, and I'm still a little puzzled as to how this could occur on a wide scale basis.

    Not only would it mean that customers are not looking at the bills they are paying (as the calculation is in there) but also that meter readers (as gas meters must be professionally read at laest every 2 years) and probably the consumers themself (as sadly the meter reader turning up every quarter themself is largely a thing of the past as suppliers strive to cut costs) are either adding or removing digits from their meter reading.

    Reason: Afaik, metric meters have 5 digit readouts whereas old imperial meters only had 4 digit readouts (ignoring in both cases any digits in red/after the decimal point)
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 15th Aug 16, 1:03 PM
    • 4,712 Posts
    • 6,090 Thanks
    jack_pott
    • #4
    • 15th Aug 16, 1:03 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Aug 16, 1:03 PM
    There are 35.3147 cubic feet in a cubic metre.
    Originally posted by One-Eye
    Yes, but imperial meters count 100s of cu ft, not cu ft, so the error is 100/35.3 = 2.83
    • D_M_E
    • By D_M_E 15th Aug 16, 2:28 PM
    • 2,464 Posts
    • 71,894 Thanks
    D_M_E
    • #5
    • 15th Aug 16, 2:28 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Aug 16, 2:28 PM
    What I would like to know is if the energy company that had been overcharging at least one customer in this manner for at least 15 years will only refund for the past 6 years or for the entire period of over 15 years?
    • dogshome
    • By dogshome 15th Aug 16, 2:58 PM
    • 3,200 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    dogshome
    • #6
    • 15th Aug 16, 2:58 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Aug 16, 2:58 PM
    Well Well - I always thought Ofgem were a bit slow off the mark, but this investigation takes the biscuit.

    Regular contributors to this forum have been advising. any poster querying very high Gas Bills, to check for Imperial billing on their Metric meter for at least 10 years
    • SammenForLivet2
    • By SammenForLivet2 15th Aug 16, 7:32 PM
    • 570 Posts
    • 570 Thanks
    SammenForLivet2
    • #7
    • 15th Aug 16, 7:32 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Aug 16, 7:32 PM
    What I would like to know is if the energy company that had been overcharging at least one customer in this manner for at least 15 years will only refund for the past 6 years or for the entire period of over 15 years?
    Originally posted by D_M_E
    I highly suspect this is a more industry wide problem, but E.ON being E.ON have actually admitted there mistakes and owned up, whereas some other suppliers may either not have the resources to find this information out, or otherwise have not considered it being a business priority.

    The whole Meter Reading Database, and MAMS need reform and a nationwide-update in general... in my personal opinion...Hopefully the move to smart meters will resolve some of these database issues.

    Note: I have no interest or work for E.ON, only know them from time in the industry (non-big six). These are my personal views and not representative of any energy company and my views may be entirely wrong.
    Thank you all for helping me make my day by saving money!
    Although I work for a big six energy supplier, any views, opinions or ideas are my own, and don't represent the views of my employer.
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 15th Aug 16, 8:44 PM
    • 4,419 Posts
    • 2,967 Thanks
    Houbara
    • #8
    • 15th Aug 16, 8:44 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Aug 16, 8:44 PM
    The headline is over estimating the problem. I don t do much work for Eon but its very rare to have a metric imperial mess up. Anyone getting billed 2.8 times extra is on the phone pretty quick and on the other mess up, that is someone with an Imperial meter getting billed metric units, it is even rarer and less likely to be complained about when the bill is 2.8 times less.
    On my data collector it states what type of meter I should be looking at and its easy to spot the error. BG always uses 4 figures for Imperial and 5 for Metric so the error is easier to spot.Other suppliers need to do the same.
    A much much bigger problem is Eco 7 users getting reversed billed on day/night and old analogue timer switches showing incorrect ( by a mile ) times so the switchover is not when expected.
    The newspaper/BBC headline I would like to see is just how lax the suppliers are at stopping people thieving energy. Its absolutely rife in the rough areas and virtually nothing is done to stop theft of energy ( British Gas excepted ).Its not even counted as a crime even though several thousands pounds worth of energy is thieved. Littering the streets is seen to be more serious. The thieves are laughing their heads off at how easy it is to get away with it and when they get caught....nothing is done whatsoever,
    Last edited by Houbara; 16-08-2016 at 7:19 AM.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    • #9
    • 16th Aug 16, 9:27 AM
    E.ON Gas Meter Billing Error
    • #9
    • 16th Aug 16, 9:27 AM
    Thousands of gas customers could be due a refund after E.On spotted a major flaw in the way some meters are read...
    Read the full story:
    'Energy customers overcharged in gas metering blunder - are you due a refund?'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
    Originally posted by MSE Faye
    Morning all. Thought I'd pop on with information following yesterday's press release advising around 600 of our residential and small business customers have been wrongly billed for their gas. The MSE article covers a lot of the announcement but there may be things I can add.

    We've identified that around 350 customers have been overcharged and about 250 undercharged due to an industry wide issue. This has come about where data used by the industry has shown gas meters as metric when imperial and vice versa. This means the calculation to convert gas usage measured in cubic feet into cubic metres was either not applied or applied when it shouldn't have been. This has resulted in some customers being overcharged by 183% or undercharged by 65%.

    We're sorry about this and are contacting all those affected. Any customer who has overpaid will have their money returned. Additionally, we'll give them a simple interest payment of 8% plus a further 10% as a way of apology.

    Customers who have underpaid due to this issue won't be asked to pay it back. We'll also confirm what they need to pay in future.

    Any customer affected doesn't need to do anything. We're identifying all those impacted, both current customers and those who have left us, and all will be treated in the same way as above. Calculations will vary depending on the amount of gas used and the length of time the issue with the meter was on our systems. Each case will be looked at individually and we've set up a specialist team to look after this. Anyone contacting us who has been affected will be put in touch with this team. We're looking to be in touch with all those affected by the end of September 16.

    Sorry again this has happened and hope the above explains what we're doing to put things right. Please let me know if anyone has any questions as happy to help.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Gas Calculation
    I wonder if there are any customers with metric meters who supplied correct readings (ignoring the fractions of a cubic metre) who were charged as if this were cubic feet and thus payed less than 3% of what they should. There are 35.3147 cubic feet in a cubic metre.
    Originally posted by One-Eye
    Yes, but imperial meters count 100s of cu ft, not cu ft, so the error is 100/35.3 = 2.83
    Originally posted by jack_pott
    Morning One-Eye.

    jack_pott is right. Imperial meters measure gas used in hundred cubic feet (hcf). These meters have 4 dials (not including any red digits). Metric meters have 5 dials (again, not counting any red digits) and record gas usage in cubic metres (m3). Depending on the type, the hcf or m3 symbol will be shown on both the meter and bills.

    Gas is recorded in volume, either cubic metres or cubic feet. This needs to be converted into kilowatt hours (kWh) for charging. The calculation we use is the same throughout the industry and also involves a correction factor and the calorific value. This is detailed on both our bills and website. As a rough guide, for imperial meters, customers can multiply the number of units taken from the meter by 31.5 and, for metric meters, by 11.2. This will give an indication of the number of kWh that should be expected.

    Hope this is of interest.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Gas Calculation
    I read about this yesterday on the BBC, and I'm still a little puzzled as to how this could occur on a wide scale basis.

    Not only would it mean that customers are not looking at the bills they are paying (as the calculation is in there) but also that meter readers (as gas meters must be professionally read at laest every 2 years) and probably the consumers themself (as sadly the meter reader turning up every quarter themself is largely a thing of the past as suppliers strive to cut costs) are either adding or removing digits from their meter reading.

    Reason: Afaik, metric meters have 5 digit readouts whereas old imperial meters only had 4 digit readouts (ignoring in both cases any digits in red/after the decimal point)
    Originally posted by footyguy
    You're right footyguy. Metric meters have 5 digits and Imperial meters 4 (not counting any red digits). Hope my post above sheds a bit more light on this.

    Although relatively small numbers of customers are involved, it's very important we identify and look at each case individually. We're working with industry bodies like Ofgem and Energy UK to understand how this happened and to make sure all of our customers, past and present, who've been affected are contacted. We're looking to be in touch with these customers by the end of September 16.

    Hope this is of interest footyguy.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Gas Meter Billing Error
    What I would like to know is if the energy company that had been overcharging at least one customer in this manner for at least 15 years will only refund for the past 6 years or for the entire period of over 15 years?
    Originally posted by D_M_E
    All customers affected by this will be treated the same way D_M_E. Although it looks like this issue goes back 15 years, the majority were affected for much less than this. As above, where customers have paid too much, we'll pay the excess back with interest and compensation. Where they haven't paid enough, we won't be asking for anything but will just let them know they may need to pay more going forward. This is the same whether the problem has been there for a short time or 15 years.

    Hope this answers your question D_M_E.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Gas Meter Billing Error
    Well Well - I always thought Ofgem were a bit slow off the mark, but this investigation takes the biscuit.

    Regular contributors to this forum have been advising. any poster querying very high Gas Bills, to check for Imperial billing on their Metric meter for at least 10 years
    Originally posted by dogshome
    I highly suspect this is a more industry wide problem, but E.ON being E.ON have actually admitted there mistakes and owned up, whereas some other suppliers may either not have the resources to find this information out, or otherwise have not considered it being a business priority.

    The whole Meter Reading Database, and MAMS need reform and a nationwide-update in general... in my personal opinion...Hopefully the move to smart meters will resolve some of these database issues.

    Note: I have no interest or work for E.ON, only know them from time in the industry (non-big six). These are my personal views and not representative of any energy company and my views may be entirely wrong.
    Originally posted by macfamilyent
    Certainly looks like it macfamilyent. We're still investigating and, as above, working with industry bodies like Ofgem and Energy UK to understand how this happened. We think it's a little different to the historical problem dogshome correctly mentions in as much as the root cause is concerned. Although the root cause is irrelevant as far as customers are concerned. Whatever the reason, some customers have paid too much or too little and, as above, we'll be in touch to advise.

    Hope this is of interest.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Gas Meter Billing Error
    The headline is over estimating the problem. I don t do much work for Eon but its very rare to have a metric imperial mess up. Anyone getting billed 2.8 times extra is on the phone pretty quick and on the other mess up, that is someone with an Imperial meter getting billed metric units, it is even rarer and less likely to be complained about when the bill is 2.8 times less.
    On my data collector it states what type of meter I should be looking at and its easy to spot the error. BG always uses 4 figures for Imperial and 5 for Metric so the error is easier to spot.Other suppliers need to do the same.
    Originally posted by sacsquacco
    It's looking like around 600 of our customers have been affected sacsquacco. Around 350 have been overcharged and about 250 undercharged. It looks like the problem is industry wide but don't know the numbers involved with other suppliers.

    Hope this is of interest.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 16th Aug 16, 8:40 PM
    • 347 Posts
    • 203 Thanks
    MeterMan
    This isn't newly discovered, its been very well known about more than 10 years.
    • suzy35
    • By suzy35 17th Aug 16, 8:00 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    suzy35
    I have had this meter for 15 years.do the previous suppliers compensate because I have switched thanks
    • dogshome
    • By dogshome 17th Aug 16, 9:19 AM
    • 3,200 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    dogshome
    suzy35
    Are you saying you have a Metric Gas Meter that has been billed as though it was an Imperial Gas Meter for the last 15 years ?

    If so, as far as claiming recompense from previous suppliers as well as your present one, the answer is YES YOU CAN
    The downside is that legally you can only go back 6 years.

    Unlikely that you still have copies of the bills going back 6 years, (Wonderful if you have), and those previous suppliers are likely to shrug off a claim from you by saying they no longer have the records - Don't give up, it's a lie, they have to keep these records for the same 6 years that limit your time to claim
    • suzy35
    • By suzy35 17th Aug 16, 9:36 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    suzy35
    thanks for that Dogshome
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 17th Aug 16, 9:48 AM
    • 4,419 Posts
    • 2,967 Thanks
    Houbara
    suzy35
    Are you saying you have a Metric Gas Meter that has been billed as though it was an Imperial Gas Meter for the last 15 years ?

    If so, as far as claiming recompense from previous suppliers as well as your present one, the answer is YES YOU CAN
    The downside is that legally you can only go back 6 years.

    Unlikely that you still have copies of the bills going back 6 years, (Wonderful if you have), and those previous suppliers are likely to shrug off a claim from you by saying they no longer have the records - Don't give up, it's a lie, they have to keep these records for the same 6 years that limit your time to claim
    Originally posted by dogshome
    I think she may mean she has had an Imperial meter billed at Metric rates and is therefore underpaying. This is much rarer than the other way round where even a summer gas bill looks huge ! Nearly all customers who have this get in touch with supplier pretty quickly as even a low summer gas bill would be pretty big. I ve found quite a few over the years who go through the call centres and they still don`t twig what has happened if the customer cannot explain about their meters properly. Call centre puts it down to extra usage !
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Gas Meter Billing Error
    I have had this meter for 15 years.do the previous suppliers compensate because I have switched thanks
    Originally posted by suzy35
    Hello suzy35. It doesn't matter that you've left us. If your old account was affected by this issue, it'll be treated in the same way as current customers and we'll be in touch.

    As dogshome asks, is the meter metric but has been billed as imperial (please see post 10 above)? Or is it the other way round and is imperial billed as metric? If it's the former, you'll have been overcharged. If the latter, you won't have been charged enough. Either way, we'll let you know.

    Don't worry, if we haven't charged enough, we won't be asking for any more. We'll just let you know as future bills will probably be higher than before. If you've paid too much, the extra will be refunded along with a simple interest payment of 8% plus a further 10% as a way of apology.

    We're working with industry bodies like Ofgem and Energy UK to understand how this happened and to make sure all of our customers, past and present, who've been affected are contacted. We're looking to be in touch with these customers by the end of September 16.

    This is all from our point of view suzy35. I can't speak for other suppliers but hope this explains what's happening from our end.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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