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    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 3rd Dec 07, 5:59 PM
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    MSE Martin
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Liam roll with it?
    • #1
    • 3rd Dec 07, 5:59 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Liam roll with it? 3rd Dec 07 at 5:59 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Liam roll with it?


    Noel and his brother Liam decide to combine funds and buy a house together. It's the investment opportunity Noel has vigorously researched into for the past 18 months, whereas his brother's been surfing mates' sofas in this time so just views the purchase as a stable roof over his head and tells Noel to sort it. So whilst Liam entertains himself with cigarettes and alcohol, Noel finds the perfect house and negotiates a 25,000 reduction in asking price, plus organises the best mortgage deal. He then argues that as he did all the leg-work he deserves a larger stake in the property, regardless of their equal deposits. Should Liam roll with it?


    Click reply to have your say

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    Is Del a plonker for flogging Wiis on eBay?
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    Last edited by Former MSE Lawrence; 10-12-2007 at 12:06 PM.
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
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Page 1
  • andy_roobarb
    • #2
    • 11th Dec 07, 10:55 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Dec 07, 10:55 PM
    Well, as Liam seems a bit !!!!less, it might be worth his while. But I reckon he'd want to keep a close eye on what Noel's doing. Seems like a recipe for conflict between siblings...hmmm, where have I heard that before?

    Edited to add...What? F3ckless isn't a swear word!
    • spiro
    • By spiro 12th Dec 07, 6:57 AM
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    spiro
    • #3
    • 12th Dec 07, 6:57 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Dec 07, 6:57 AM
    I think Noel should get a larger share to reflect the 25k he has saved them in the asking price which will save them both money in the long term in reduced mortage payments.
    IT Consultant in the utilities industry specialising in the retail electricity market.

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    • kippers
    • By kippers 12th Dec 07, 7:05 AM
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    kippers
    • #4
    • 12th Dec 07, 7:05 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Dec 07, 7:05 AM
    I think Noel should have known how useless his brother was before he agreed to buy a house with him. I think he should go 50/50 with his brother if he wants to carry on buying the property or it could cause a rift between them and they could end up losing the house (& money) in the near future as prices are falling.

    Also, if he does go through with it he will end up being in charge of all the bills as his brother obviously won't be bothered to pay any (though i'm sure he will pay his half)
  • PayPeanuts
    • #5
    • 12th Dec 07, 8:53 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Dec 07, 8:53 AM
    They should have cleared all this up when they agreed to buy together...

    Whats going to happen further down the line if Noel does all the cleaning, will he want to pay less mortgage? What if Liam buys all the lager, will he demand a bigger share of the equity?

    I think noels request is unreasonable, he should have either got liam of his sofa and out researching with him, or found someone more motivated to buy with!
    • pollyanna24
    • By pollyanna24 12th Dec 07, 10:15 AM
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    pollyanna24
    • #6
    • 12th Dec 07, 10:15 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Dec 07, 10:15 AM
    I don't think he should have a bigger stake in the property. He needs his brother to buy the property. He should have made his brother more interested in helping.

    There are plenty of people in this world who have the money to help others, i.e. joint investment, and they do nothing, but reap the benefits, simply because they have the money (or ability to get a mortgage in this case).
    Pink Sproglettes born 2008 and 2010
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    • ken_1969
    • By ken_1969 12th Dec 07, 10:34 AM
    • 49 Posts
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    ken_1969
    • #7
    • 12th Dec 07, 10:34 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Dec 07, 10:34 AM
    It's a tough one, especially where family are involved. I've had issues with money myself with my own brother. In my younger days, when I was desperate for some quick cash I asked to borrow 6k in return for a 7k payback. I obviously hadn't really thought it through at the time but I could have got a better deal at a high street bank as it was only a short term loan. Once I realised I tried to renegotiate but a deal's a deal. Still I felt a bit ripped off. More fool me I know but like I say money and family don't always go well together.

    Second, slightly different, every year myself and a group of friends go skiing. I normally do all the legwork, researching the best resorts and cheapest deals and come up with something really good. But I would not consider asking for any reduction in payment for this work. However I do from the outset make it clear that I will bag the best room. I think there is a fine line between getting a nod for your efforts and claiming financial reward where everyone invests the same.

    Liam is obviously not quite as f3ckless as we think here as he clearly has enough cash to make an equal deposit. If Noel is so smart and has a bigger deposit it might be fair for him to offer to buy a larger share of the property and enjoy a larger share of the rewards if he thinks it's such a good deal.

    However, either way, Noel has grabbed a bargain and is going to benefit from his research and negotiation long term. If he deserves any other reward for his legwork it should be that maybe he gets the best room in the house.

    Financial nonce is valuable at the end of the day, but if you need cash to make an investment then you need to treat your investors according to the cash they pay, not necessarily the financial expertise they bring to the table.
    25,040 of credit card debt cleared!
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    • Bargainetta
    • By Bargainetta 12th Dec 07, 11:28 AM
    • 77 Posts
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    Bargainetta
    • #8
    • 12th Dec 07, 11:28 AM
    Still 50/50
    • #8
    • 12th Dec 07, 11:28 AM
    I think it should still remain 50/50. If Noel is unhappy with that he should have pushed Liam to be more hands on earlier. However, there is bound to be one bedroom that is bigger so I think that should have Noel's name on it!
  • cliverowland
    • #9
    • 12th Dec 07, 11:49 AM
    Money Moral Dilemma
    • #9
    • 12th Dec 07, 11:49 AM
    Noel can't ask more than 50:50 but he can have first choice on room (and decoration, girlfriend etc).
  • not-so-civil
    Of course Liam shouldn't roll over - he is the sleeping partner!
    • terill
    • By terill 12th Dec 07, 2:07 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    terill
    Absolutely not! The 25k reduction and good mortgage benefit Noel too. Noel could not buy place without Liam so it must be 50/50 split. However, I agree that noel should get first pick on bedroom and decor.
  • esthomizzy
    They both need each other. Noel presumably can't buy a place without Liam and if Noel asks for a bigger stake just for a bit of extra effort as a oneoff then Liam is within his rights to tell him to get lost. Noel didn't have to do all the work he could/should have made Liam pull his weight. Trying to distort the shares unequally is a massive headache anyway. Supposing they did would they pay equal shares of the mortgage or unequal?

    They should stick to equal and make a proper negotiated document agreeing various things about living together. Eg What happens if either wants to sell/move a girlfriend in/redecorate/whatever.
    MFi3 member 105 - MFW date Oct 2023 - 12 years 9 months more
  • Dutchie71
    Financial nonce is valuable at the end of the day, but if you need cash to make an investment then you need to treat your investors according to the cash they pay, not necessarily the financial expertise they bring to the table.
    Originally posted by ken_1969
    You mean financial nous and not nonce! A nonce (slang) is a sexual offender according to Wikipedia!

    Anyway, apart from the little slip up, I totally agree with your response.
  • needmoney
    I'd never partner up with him in the fist place, but yes Noel should get a bigger share and that bodes for future disagreements.

    My best advice would be pull out and go it alone.
    Women and cats will do as they please and men and dogs should get used to it.
    Happiness is a perfume you cannot pour on others without getting a few drops on yourself.
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  • scorchio75
    If it (the larger stake) wasn't agreed at the outset, then I think Noel should go 50/50...but he should make sure that he gets the best bedroom!
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    • Gordon861
    • By Gordon861 12th Dec 07, 5:55 PM
    • 281 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    Gordon861
    Equal partners is what was agreed and they should stick with it.

    If they are going to start having problems now they shouldn't be buying a house together, as it will get worse when they go to sell it.

    The only perk he should get for doing all the leg work is first choice of rooms.
    • JayD
    • By JayD 12th Dec 07, 6:27 PM
    • 517 Posts
    • 326 Thanks
    JayD
    Well, there must have been some form of agreement in place as to who was paying what etc before all this house hunting started - and it sounds as if the agreement was 50/50 down the middle re deposit and stake. As has already been said, Noel knew what he was taking on with his brother from the outset - which is why he has probably done all the research, legwork, negotiating all along. He obviously needs Liam's 50% cash input, so he doesn't really have a choice. But hey, I would not have gone 50/50 with anyone who didn't at least take an interest in the property during the search! It was down to Noel to find a better housemate from the start.
    • tallgirld
    • By tallgirld 12th Dec 07, 8:37 PM
    • 476 Posts
    • 317 Thanks
    tallgirld
    No he shouldn't get a bigger stake!!! He shouldn't of done all that work if he knew it was gonna *** him off.

    He should just buy the property on his jacks!!
  • pompeyrose
    Noel should go 5o/50 or pull out thats not what familys r about . liam could lose respect for noel and wouldnt trust him again.
  • lamp
    Doesn't matter how useless Liam is. 50/50 all the way if equal money is going in. It's a rather grey area to swap favours/gruntwork for money unless it's a business. Perhaps Noel can remind Liam all the hard work he initially put in when it comes to DIY/housework!

    P.S. I assume Noel couldn't have bought a house with Liams stake, so the lazy so and so is doing something useflu
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