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    • Former MSE Paloma
    • By Former MSE Paloma 27th Apr 15, 8:36 AM
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    Former MSE Paloma
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Scrap 'family tax' that pushes parents to pay to sit next to kids
    • #1
    • 27th Apr 15, 8:36 AM
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Scrap 'family tax' that pushes parents to pay to sit next to kids 27th Apr 15 at 8:36 AM
    MSE demands airlines scrap a 'family tax' that pushes parents to pay an extra £15 each to sit next to their children ...

    Read the full story:

    MSE calls for airlines to scrap 'family tax' and guarantee parents are seated next to children for free




    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

Page 1
    • duchy
    • By duchy 27th Apr 15, 8:40 AM
    • 18,373 Posts
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    duchy
    • #2
    • 27th Apr 15, 8:40 AM
    • #2
    • 27th Apr 15, 8:40 AM
    It was fairly clear from the recent thread on here that there was division and a large number of posters didn't agree so I'm not sure why MSE are demanding .....or even who they are demanding this of.
    I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole

    MSE Florida wedding .....no problem
    • benjus
    • By benjus 27th Apr 15, 8:57 AM
    • 5,317 Posts
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    benjus
    • #3
    • 27th Apr 15, 8:57 AM
    • #3
    • 27th Apr 15, 8:57 AM
    So essentially MSE is demanding that this optional charge becomes a compulsory charge added to the ticket price, as has happened every other time they protested against airline practices.

    Which would make it a "travelling-without-children-and-don't-mind-where-I-sit tax" rather than a "family tax". But everyone knows that people who don't have children with them are a nasty selfish bunch and we should always think of the children, so this "tax" will probably be deemed acceptable.

    Or how about people just budget for this extra charge when booking? Cheap flights are not a basic human right...
    Let's settle this like gentlemen: armed with heavy sticks
    On a rotating plate, with spikes like Flash Gordon
    And you're Peter Duncan; I gave you fair warning
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 27th Apr 15, 9:26 AM
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    Pollycat
    • #4
    • 27th Apr 15, 9:26 AM
    • #4
    • 27th Apr 15, 9:26 AM
    I think this is a load of tosh from MSE.

    'Demanding'?
    Really?

    Well, MSE, it appears the CAA ain't listening to your demands:
    The airlines aren't technically breaking any rules set out by the regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).
    Its guidelines only state that airlines should "aim to sit parents close to children", or if this isn't possible, they should not be separated by more than one aisle and by no more than one seat row.
    But MoneySavingExpert.com believes the airlines are using sneaky tactics and not serving families well. This "family tax" is yet another extra cost for holidaymakers looking to get away.
    We asked the CAA whether it plans to tighten the guidelines to guarantee parents are seated next to their children for free. It says it has no plans to change the rules.
    To refer to it as a 'family tax' is ridiculous.
    It's a chargeable optional extra.
    Choose to pay it or choose not to pay it.
    • duchy
    • By duchy 27th Apr 15, 9:57 AM
    • 18,373 Posts
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    duchy
    • #5
    • 27th Apr 15, 9:57 AM
    • #5
    • 27th Apr 15, 9:57 AM
    Ironic MSE demanding airlines increase charges to travellers.
    I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole

    MSE Florida wedding .....no problem
    • tripled
    • By tripled 27th Apr 15, 10:27 AM
    • 2,463 Posts
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    tripled
    • #6
    • 27th Apr 15, 10:27 AM
    • #6
    • 27th Apr 15, 10:27 AM
    So this would disproportionaly penalise those without children who hadn't coughed up. They would have to be the ones moved about to accomodate them and so this would increase the chances of being separated. Thus increasing the pressure on that demographic to pay instead. Not everyone can be sat together on a busy plane, someone has to lose out (or the airline has to keep some seats back and raise charges to compensate).

    I'm not in favour of the fees - I think the airline should attempt to seat everyone together as far as is reasonably possible - but it seems like some of the MSE staff have been spending too much time on Mumsnet.


    • KTF
    • By KTF 27th Apr 15, 10:47 AM
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    KTF
    • #7
    • 27th Apr 15, 10:47 AM
    • #7
    • 27th Apr 15, 10:47 AM
    The 'seating together' option is pure profit for the airlines.

    I don't know of anyone who has checked in as a group and then found themselves scattered across the cabin by the check in system.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 27th Apr 15, 10:51 AM
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    PasturesNew
    • #8
    • 27th Apr 15, 10:51 AM
    • #8
    • 27th Apr 15, 10:51 AM
    I'd pay £15 NOT to sit next to somebody else's random and stray kids.
    • DTDfanBoy
    • By DTDfanBoy 27th Apr 15, 11:03 AM
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    DTDfanBoy
    • #9
    • 27th Apr 15, 11:03 AM
    • #9
    • 27th Apr 15, 11:03 AM
    This is only an issue on the budget airlines who rely on the insecurities of a few to make a few extra £££.

    Unsurprisingly those same people are worried that they'll be inconvenienced, by those silly enough not to pay to be seated next to each other, but haven't really though through the whole process properly.

    Seating should be allocated in-line with the CAA guidance, the guidance has been issued as it's a safety concern that affects all those on board the aircraft. The seating allocation of families should take place at the time of booking or perhaps at check in, but it is never something that needs to take place on board the aircraft as the airline know the age of all passengers in a party from the time of booking.

    I'll be breaking through the 1,000,000 miles flown mark either later this year or early next, I've never paid to be seated with travelling companions and have never been separated by more that the CAA guidelines for families even though I don't have any children. Thankfully unless you're flying the cheapest of the budget carriers being seated with those on your booking is still an expected part of the service and not an invented added extra that needs to be paid for
    • tomtontom
    • By tomtontom 27th Apr 15, 12:43 PM
    • 7,184 Posts
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    tomtontom
    This is only an issue on the budget airlines who rely on the insecurities of a few to make a few extra £££.

    Unsurprisingly those same people are worried that they'll be inconvenienced, by those silly enough not to pay to be seated next to each other, but haven't really though through the whole process properly.

    Seating should be allocated in-line with the CAA guidance, the guidance has been issued as it's a safety concern that affects all those on board the aircraft. The seating allocation of families should take place at the time of booking or perhaps at check in, but it is never something that needs to take place on board the aircraft as the airline know the age of all passengers in a party from the time of booking.

    I'll be breaking through the 1,000,000 miles flown mark either later this year or early next, I've never paid to be seated with travelling companions and have never been separated by more that the CAA guidelines for families even though I don't have any children. Thankfully unless you're flying the cheapest of the budget carriers being seated with those on your booking is still an expected part of the service and not an invented added extra that needs to be paid for
    Originally posted by DTDfanBoy
    Has BA become a budget airline now? They charge in the same way that the LCCs do.
    • DTDfanBoy
    • By DTDfanBoy 27th Apr 15, 1:00 PM
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    DTDfanBoy
    Has BA become a budget airline now? They charge in the same way that the LCCs do.
    Originally posted by tomtontom
    While BA is enhancing itself towards the budget end of the spectrum on a yearly basis, they still haven't lowered themselves to the point of some of the budget carriers

    If you fly on BA you don't have to pay a premium to ensure you're seated with your children.

    We know where you sit as a family can make a big different to your trip so we aim to make it a little easier.

    When you travel with an infant (under two years) who won't be travelling in a seat of their own, you can reserve a seat for yourself and everyone in your booking, free of charge, from the time of booking. If you don't choose your seats in advance, where possible we'll reserve suitable seats for you three days before the flight.

    If you are travelling with children (between two and 12 years), we'll allocate you seats five days before departure. If you can't be seated together, we'll make sure each child is seated with an adult from your group.
    Originally posted by BritishAirways
    • Credit-Crunched
    • By Credit-Crunched 27th Apr 15, 1:09 PM
    • 2,114 Posts
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    Credit-Crunched
    I travel a lot, between Uk and Europe, many time a mother / father has asked to swap seats so they can sit next to their child.

    Obviously, I agree without any fuss, as most rational people would.

    I think people at MSE HQ, need to get back in their box.

    You can not just demand, that business change their charging structure to suit.

    MSE demands Tesco charges 50p for milk

    MSE demands NCP do not charge more than £3 a day

    ....

    Come on now MSE, get a grip!

    MSE
    Last edited by Credit-Crunched; 27-04-2015 at 1:12 PM.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 27th Apr 15, 1:18 PM
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    Pollycat
    I travel a lot, between Uk and Europe, many time a mother / father has asked to swap seats so they can sit next to their child.

    Obviously, I agree without any fuss, as most rational people would.

    I think people at MSE HQ, need to get back in their box.

    You can not just demand, that business change their charging structure to suit.

    MSE demands Tesco charges 50p for milk

    MSE demands NCP do not charge more than £3 a day

    ....

    Come on now MSE, get a grip!

    MSE
    Originally posted by Credit-Crunched
    Would you agree to change seats if you had paid to sit with the people you are travelling with and were asked to change your seat by someone who hadn't paid for that?
    • Credit-Crunched
    • By Credit-Crunched 27th Apr 15, 1:26 PM
    • 2,114 Posts
    • 4,139 Thanks
    Credit-Crunched
    Would you agree to change seats if you had paid to sit with the people you are travelling with and were asked to change your seat by someone who hadn't paid for that?
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    If I was particularly fussy who I sat next to, and wanted to ensure that it was possible, I would pay a premium for that. If I was not fussed, I would not pay a premium, and sit where I was told.

    In reality, how often are people split up? Airlines are generally very accommodating, either check in on line early, or get to the airport early.

    In answer to your question, as an adult if I could see a mother / child were getting distressed as they could not sit together, and I had paid to sit next to a friend / other half, Yes I would move. I would like to think that someone else would do the same for my sister and niece's.
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 27th Apr 15, 1:30 PM
    • 5,750 Posts
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    brewerdave
    Would you agree to change seats if you had paid to sit with the people you are travelling with and were asked to change your seat by someone who hadn't paid for that?
    Originally posted by Pollycat

    ...I certainly wouldn't !

    Anyway this topic has been discussed to death in the past on Trip Advisor -the general consensus was that the only way to satisfy the family bookers was to charge/allow everyone to choose a seat at the time of booking -and that won't work for last minute group bookers who are almost guaranteed to be spread around the cabin, whether they are a family or not. The alternative is to not allow advance seat booking at all and leave it to the airline to allocate!!
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 27th Apr 15, 1:35 PM
    • 5,750 Posts
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    brewerdave

    In reality, how often are people split up? Airlines are generally very accommodating, either check in on line early, or get to the airport early.

    .
    Originally posted by Credit-Crunched
    Quite often on charter airlines -with an airline like Thomson the seats are allocated ~24 hours before the flight (those that haven't booked) so ,in theory, getting to the airport/check in early ,doesn't help. There are quite often 3 seats together , so with couples travelling there are often odd seats scattered around the cabin.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 27th Apr 15, 1:39 PM
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    • 63,846 Thanks
    Pollycat
    If I was particularly fussy who I sat next to, and wanted to ensure that it was possible, I would pay a premium for that. If I was not fussed, I would not pay a premium, and sit where I was told.

    In reality, how often are people split up? Airlines are generally very accommodating, either check in on line early, or get to the airport early.

    In answer to your question, as an adult if I could see a mother / child were getting distressed as they could not sit together, and I had paid to sit next to a friend / other half, Yes I would move. I would like to think that someone else would do the same for my sister and niece's.
    Originally posted by Credit-Crunched
    If sitting separately would cause such distress and paying to sit together was a chargeable extra, they should have paid to ensure they wouldn't be caused distress.

    We don't pay to sit together when flying short-haul but do pay to choose our specific seats when flying long-haul.
    As such I would not move for someone who hadn't paid and just expected to be accommodated.

    On the old Thomas Cook A330 planes which were configured 3-3-3, we used to book seats one behind the other in the central section e.g. 12D & 13D.
    As the other 2 seats were usually occupied by couples, it meant that we could get up without disturbing anyone and could sleep without being disturbed.
    Also, I could recline my seat knowing that my OH wouldn't be kicking the back of my seat throughout the journey.

    One flight we found ourselves the only occupants in both rows.
    Cabin crew asked if we were travelling together (I think they were looking to move some people who weren't happy with their seats - obviously they hadn't bothered/wanted to pay to reserve their seats) and I said we were but we had booked those specific seats and explained why.
    She said that was fine & left us there.
    • sinizterguy
    • By sinizterguy 27th Apr 15, 1:50 PM
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    sinizterguy
    The 'seating together' option is pure profit for the airlines.

    I don't know of anyone who has checked in as a group and then found themselves scattered across the cabin by the check in system.
    Originally posted by KTF
    My brother and his wife - Sat at two ends of the plane on a long-haul trip.

    No kids.
    • KTF
    • By KTF 27th Apr 15, 1:53 PM
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    KTF
    No kids.
    Originally posted by sinizterguy
    That will be why then as an airline wont put a kid on its own away from a parent.
    • sinizterguy
    • By sinizterguy 27th Apr 15, 1:56 PM
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    sinizterguy
    That will be why then as an airline wont put a kid on its own away from a parent.
    Originally posted by KTF
    But they can and will put the two parents away from each other.

    They only guarantee one parent will sit with one kid.

    Had that happen to a friend.

    Wife and Kid1 together, Husband and kid2 elsewhere.
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