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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Paloma
    • By Former MSE Paloma 16th Mar 15, 11:47 AM
    • 526Posts
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    Former MSE Paloma
    MSE News: Plans to allow savers to sell their pension income revealed
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 15, 11:47 AM
    MSE News: Plans to allow savers to sell their pension income revealed 16th Mar 15 at 11:47 AM
    Five million people who've already bought an annuity will be given the same freedoms as people nearing retirement ...

    Read the full story:

    'Plans to allow savers to sell their pension income revealed




    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

Page 1
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 16th Mar 15, 12:24 PM
    • 3,284 Posts
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    greenglide
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 15, 12:24 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 15, 12:24 PM
    'People should be trusted with their own pension'
    Yes, but these are the people who bought the original annuity anyway, in many cases without using the open market option and without using the drawdown option available for some years not.

    Since "most" people seem not to be able to understand these things anyway making it easier to make bad decisions in so many cases doesnt sound like a good idea to me.
    • redux
    • By redux 16th Mar 15, 1:51 PM
    • 19,110 Posts
    • 25,996 Thanks
    redux
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 15, 1:51 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 15, 1:51 PM
    There was someone on the telly who wants to cash in his pension of £15 a month in order to spend the ensuing lump sum on a new car and/or a holiday, and use the change to start an ISA account.

    I'm assuming the whole lot is worth about £4,000.
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 16th Mar 15, 2:43 PM
    • 3,284 Posts
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    greenglide
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 15, 2:43 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 15, 2:43 PM
    So with charges, taxes etc, depending on age I would have thought you would be talking about £2,000 or so?

    Change from "new car and/or a holiday" seems unlikely in the extreme.

    Convert the frequency to annual and have a Christmas present!

    And wonder why the annuity was bought in the first place.

    Having said that that level was never going to provide much towards retirement.
  • jamesd
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 15, 2:56 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 15, 2:56 PM
    For extensive discussion of this see the existing thread at Osborne's latest policy.
    • agarnett
    • By agarnett 17th Mar 15, 12:49 PM
    • 1,282 Posts
    • 536 Thanks
    agarnett
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 15, 12:49 PM
    OK so in payment annuities can be sold like debt. Why not in-payment DB pensions too?
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 15, 12:49 PM
    I think the other Osborne's latest policy discussion thread running ahead of this one is concentrating on actual annuity contracts.

    As we have all for some time now been groomed to understand that our entire world runs on trade of debt more than it ever did on trade of goods, it is any surprise that powers that be have started looking at annuities as tradeable debt ?

    But if talking of tradeable debt, what is a private sector DB pension once activated in retirement if it is not something very similar to an annuity ? These schemes have already been crawled over by the likes of Goldman Sachs and many have been "de-risked" (longevity risks) for someone's benefit (not sure whose!). So they have already for a few years been treated as tradeable debt when observed from one end of the telescope.

    So does the latest consultation on annuity reform just announced extend to include private sector DB pensions in payment ?

    If not why not ? (I am not saying it's a good idea, but it it is a fair question, is it not?)

    And the next question obviously ought to be, and what about public sector DB retirees - will they be able to sell their in-payment pensions to banks and others too ?

    I detect that this whole thing is a massive QE initiative not designed purely to free lots of cash to be spent in the economy, but to sell massive government debt (liability to pay civil service pensions?) at knock down prices into the hands of banks by stealth.

    Afterall, look at that fascinating investment banker playpit named Greece. Greece has an army of public sector pensionists, many who retired remarkably early due to the pervading culture! Who pays their pensions and how ? Is it still the Greek government who pays ? Or do pensions not get paid ? Or have arrangements already been made with banks to sell that debt secretly on behalf of Greece's pensionists along with more tangible assets like their main airport!?

    Austerity ought to nicely mess with longevity at the moment in Greece!

    If UK pensionists sell their annuities or DB entitlements cheaply now, spend the cash, and then die miserable and poor (and early!) then isn't everybody happy?

    So many big questions to play with - investment bankers must be so so happy, and if Tommy Cooper had lived to see the day, he'd have had us in stitches over it! Bottle-glass-bottle-bottle-glass-bottle ... er- he-ha-ha! Not like that ... like that! I said to my mother the other day, I feel like my pension is like a little rope with a knot in it ... I can't undo it ... but wait a minute ... if I cut it here into little pieces, like so ... oh ... so it's not like a pension ... it's a rope! Never mind, I can still hang myself! What's that you say ? .... Ahem .... (throws pieces on floor and a little Gold Man hoovers up). The end. What's next ?
    Last edited by agarnett; 17-03-2015 at 1:12 PM.
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