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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 17th Feb 15, 10:36 AM
    • 2,324Posts
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    Former MSE Helen
    MSE News: Get engaged on Valentine's Day? Don't forget to insure your ring
    • #1
    • 17th Feb 15, 10:36 AM
    MSE News: Get engaged on Valentine's Day? Don't forget to insure your ring 17th Feb 15 at 10:36 AM
    Without insurance and an up-to-date valuation, you could be at risk of not being able to claim...

    Read the full story:

    Get engaged on Valentine's Day? Don't forget to insure your ring




    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

Page 1
    • tripled
    • By tripled 17th Feb 15, 10:40 AM
    • 2,463 Posts
    • 1,126 Thanks
    tripled
    • #2
    • 17th Feb 15, 10:40 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Feb 15, 10:40 AM
    I'm surprised at MSE perpetuating the marketing from De Beers that a ring should cost two months salary! Indeed, they upped it to two months in the 80's after the success of their one month campaign a few decades before. Conventional wisdom or folly?

    In the UK, one survey put the average spend as around three weeks of the average wage.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27371208
    • OnanTheBarbarian
    • By OnanTheBarbarian 17th Feb 15, 10:42 AM
    • 1,422 Posts
    • 869 Thanks
    OnanTheBarbarian
    • #3
    • 17th Feb 15, 10:42 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Feb 15, 10:42 AM
    Naah, Lizzy Duke's, £150.00 but I was mis-sold the extended warranty, what should I do?
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 17th Feb 15, 11:04 AM
    • 11,885 Posts
    • 11,412 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    • #4
    • 17th Feb 15, 11:04 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Feb 15, 11:04 AM
    followed conventional wisdom and spent a couple of months' salary on it.
    I don't think that there is any wisdom, conventional or otherwise, in spending two months' salary on a ring - especially for a couple just starting out their lives together.

    Was this a guest comment? If so, it doesn't say so.
    • tripled
    • By tripled 17th Feb 15, 11:30 AM
    • 2,463 Posts
    • 1,126 Thanks
    tripled
    • #5
    • 17th Feb 15, 11:30 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Feb 15, 11:30 AM
    I don't think that there is any wisdom, conventional or otherwise, in spending two months' salary on a ring - especially for a couple just starting out their lives together.

    Was this a guest comment? If so, it doesn't say so.
    Originally posted by JimmyTheWig
    I don't think it is, it's by their "Senior Insurance Writer". I agree with you entirely - I appreciate it's probably a throwaway line, but a supposedly money-saving site should be more careful about perpetuating myths like that.
    • InsideInsurance
    • By InsideInsurance 17th Feb 15, 11:49 AM
    • 22,215 Posts
    • 11,383 Thanks
    InsideInsurance
    • #6
    • 17th Feb 15, 11:49 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Feb 15, 11:49 AM
    I don't think that there is any wisdom, conventional or otherwise, in spending two months' salary on a ring - especially for a couple just starting out their lives together.
    Originally posted by JimmyTheWig
    Without nit picking over their exact choice of words I would argue that there is the common "urban myth", for want of a better phrase, that an engagement ring is "supposed" to be 2 months salary of the guy.

    As per the post above, it is credited to being a marketing message from De Beers which when originally run was 1 months salary and after the success of that it was repeated but with 2 months salary. By all accounts before their first campaign a diamond ring for an engagement was a new concept and hadnt caught on

    The reality in the UK is lower than it, not sure what it is in the USA but there is an increasing trend there for "upgrading" the ring periodically to ensure it remains appropriate for your highest standard of living and you arent "stuck" with a $200 ring bought as teenagers when your hubby is now earning $500k a year
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 17th Feb 15, 12:59 PM
    • 11,885 Posts
    • 11,412 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    • #7
    • 17th Feb 15, 12:59 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Feb 15, 12:59 PM
    I don't think it is, it's by their "Senior Insurance Writer".
    Originally posted by tripled
    Yes, you're right. I first read it as being by a somewhat random "insurance writer". But I agree - it's an MSE piece.
    • OnanTheBarbarian
    • By OnanTheBarbarian 17th Feb 15, 1:02 PM
    • 1,422 Posts
    • 869 Thanks
    OnanTheBarbarian
    • #8
    • 17th Feb 15, 1:02 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Feb 15, 1:02 PM
    I believe their "senior insurance writer" has recently left
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 17th Feb 15, 1:03 PM
    • 11,885 Posts
    • 11,412 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    • #9
    • 17th Feb 15, 1:03 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Feb 15, 1:03 PM
    Without nit picking over their exact choice of words I would argue that there is the common "urban myth", for want of a better phrase, that an engagement ring is "supposed" to be 2 months salary of the guy.
    Originally posted by InsideInsurance
    I think the words here are worth nit-picking over.
    "Conventional wisdom" gives it credibility.
    "Urban myth" is much more neutral.
    Personally, if writing for MSE, I'd have gone for something like "mis-conception" - i.e. something deliberately negative.
    • rs65
    • By rs65 17th Feb 15, 7:21 PM
    • 5,372 Posts
    • 2,564 Thanks
    rs65
    If it's not been recently valued your insurance provider won't take into account any increases in the market, so you'll just be paid an amount based on the last time it was valued.

    Is that correct?
    • InsideInsurance
    • By InsideInsurance 18th Feb 15, 8:51 AM
    • 22,215 Posts
    • 11,383 Thanks
    InsideInsurance
    It makes it harder to argue the case but certainly not impossible

    These things are not helped by jewelry valuers being a pain and generally refusing to value something based on someone elses description of the item in case the other valuers miss judged the quality of the stone/ metals etc
    • Rate tart? sticks and stones.....
    • By Rate tart? sticks and stones..... 22nd Feb 15, 9:02 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Rate tart? sticks and stones.....
    Valuations are so expensive
    I recently lost a small diamond from my 30 year old eternity ring. The excess on my policy was £100 and the cost of replacing the diamond was £150. I opted not to proceed with the insurance claim. I then realised that my valuation was over 20 years old. I asked the jeweller if they would give me a up-to-date valuation after they completed the work. They quoted £140 for the valuation. This is in Edinburgh and they said all the jewellers use the same valuer. I'll have to save up for that and lock up my ring in the meantime!
    • InsideInsurance
    • By InsideInsurance 23rd Feb 15, 9:27 AM
    • 22,215 Posts
    • 11,383 Thanks
    InsideInsurance
    Valuations can be done on one of two basis, fixed fee or percentage of value. Depending on how many items you have and how certain you are of their value then one or the other method can be better for you.

    Many companies that offer "valuations" actually use third parties and so you may find commonality across many of them. There are associations of valuers and such that will give you the details of actual valuers rather than those that sell the services of others.

    From my distant memory I think in London fixed price valuations were around £50 each and valuation based were 2% or so.
    • rs65
    • By rs65 23rd Feb 15, 6:13 PM
    • 5,372 Posts
    • 2,564 Thanks
    rs65
    I was getting an engagement ringed re-sized recently and asked him to give me a valuation whilst he had it.

    It was either £25 or £35 (all in) - certainly a lot less than £140 and 2%.
    • gem_man
    • By gem_man 16th Dec 15, 8:18 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    gem_man
    Following on from InsideInsurance's comment......
    It is now unusual for professional Jewellery Valuers to charge a percentage of the value. This is now generally considered to be unethical, and quite rightly so. Some associations, like the AIJV, actually outlaw such this method of calculating fees. I few "old school" jewellers who do their own valuations rather than put their work out to a specialist, still charge a percentage, but their numbers are diminishing.

    I know that jewellery valuations can sometimes appear to be expensive but this is because in the past valuations were viewed by the public and jewellers as a courtesy service. Those days have long gone. A jewellery valuation report these days is an important document that the writer is legally responsible for. It takes significant expertise, training and a significant investment in equipment and on-going education.

    One should be very suspicious of a £20-£50 valuation, there is a good chance that the contents are not worth the paper it is written on and will ultimately cause the jewellery owner big problems if a claim on insurance has to be made.

    I would advise all seeking a valuation to seek out a specialist in this field. The end result will be vastly superior, totally fit for purpose, will be accepted by the insurance company and will ultimately save the owner money.

    There are a number of websites that list professionals in your area, mainly supplied by associations dealing with this profession.
    There is a new directory that aims to bring together members of all of the various associations and specifically deals with professional Jeweller Valuers, or as they are sometimes called, Appraisers.
    Jewellery Appraisers of the World

    I hope this helps, and as always, once this thread is closed I am happy to receive private messages from folk looking for a recommendation of a valuer in their area.

    Regards to all
    Adrian
    Last edited by gem_man; 16-12-2015 at 8:20 AM. Reason: Spelling correction
    • takman
    • By takman 16th Dec 15, 7:35 PM
    • 3,785 Posts
    • 3,470 Thanks
    takman
    The costs of valuing a ring mentioned in this thread are higher than I would pay when buying a ring!. I find it incredible that people will pay thousands of pounds to buy something to look at!.
    • Rate tart? sticks and stones.....
    • By Rate tart? sticks and stones..... 26th Feb 16, 3:08 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Rate tart? sticks and stones.....
    A huge saving on a valuation thanks to this forum
    I was advised by a reputable jeweller in Edinburgh that I would have to pay £230+ for a valuation of my ring (worth less than £2000) and there was no point in shopping around as all the jewellers in town used the same valuation service. Using the links on this forum I contacted a member of the Jewellery Appraisers of the World. I paid £75 and I am now the proud owner of a bound folder containing a detailed description, photograph and additional interesting information about the way that gem stones are categorised and how to interpret hallmarks.

    I was also fortunate to find a professional valuer who is based only 2 miles from where I live and he was happy for me to remain while he carried out the valuation. It was fascinating and I was able to look at the diamonds through a microscope - I should add that this is not obligatory and that I fully appreciate that not everyone would find this of interest but I did! Incidentally, by happy coincidence there is one of the best places for coffee and cake in East Lothian in the same building! A win win

    I am happy to pass on contact details for the valuer if you PM me.
    • gem_man
    • By gem_man 13th Mar 16, 12:22 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    gem_man
    Hi Rate Tart..
    I am delighted that you found a solution to your problem.
    I know the Valuer you are referring to. Why not show your appreciation by leaving him a review on his profile page on the JAW Directory? It will benefit him greatly I am sure.
    Kind regards
    Adrian
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