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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 30th Sep 13, 9:09 AM
    • 1,628Posts
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    MSE Guy
    MSE News: Student loans are not big enough
    • #1
    • 30th Sep 13, 9:09 AM
    MSE News: Student loans are not big enough 30th Sep 13 at 9:09 AM
    "The amount students are given to live off risks failing to cover the basics..."

    Read the full story:
    Student loans are not big enough




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Page 1
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 30th Sep 13, 9:18 AM
    • 20,102 Posts
    • 15,243 Thanks
    Lokolo
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 13, 9:18 AM
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 13, 9:18 AM
    Surely it is the high cost of housing you should complain about, not the student loans?

    Charles Morris Hall, University of Leeds charges £182/week (£7,000 for the academic year)
    Come on, £182 a WEEK for a ROOM in a SHARED hall, IN LEEDS?!
    • miller
    • By miller 30th Sep 13, 10:33 AM
    • 1,309 Posts
    • 483 Thanks
    miller
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 13, 10:33 AM
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 13, 10:33 AM
    I think the 10 Key Facts section definitely needs a health warning asterix e.g.

    *Correct at the time of writing, current & future goverments may and probably will move the goalposts to your detriment.
    • MiniDF
    • By MiniDF 30th Sep 13, 10:35 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 1,637 Thanks
    MiniDF
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 13, 10:35 AM
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 13, 10:35 AM
    Most of the students I know are having to do some pretty strict budgeting, you get less money every year too which doesn't help. While most of us can work a few hours a week to give us some more breathing space some students such as the medics just don't have the time or energy to go to work after a full day at uni or placement.
    • Taiko
    • By Taiko 30th Sep 13, 10:46 AM
    • 2,552 Posts
    • 2,391 Thanks
    Taiko
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 13, 10:46 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 13, 10:46 AM
    Most of the students I know are having to do some pretty strict budgeting, you get less money every year too which doesn't help. While most of us can work a few hours a week to give us some more breathing space some students such as the medics just don't have the time or energy to go to work after a full day at uni or placement.
    Originally posted by MiniDF
    There's only a reduction in student finance in the final year, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

    The cost of the accomodation seems horrid, which would lead me to believe that the universities are, to some extent, profiteering off the backs of a captive audience. Granted, students can privately rent, but in a first year the chances of them being willing and able to do so are small.

    Without taking the time to look into it myself, I can't help but think the article has looked at the more expensive accomodation at those universities. Will be happy to be proven otherwise, but I wouldn't be surprised if those were the top end HoR, rather than your basic stuff.
    • Sharon87
    • By Sharon87 30th Sep 13, 12:12 PM
    • 3,652 Posts
    • 3,106 Thanks
    Sharon87
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:12 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:12 PM
    I agree the accomodation costs are way too much. They're better off living in a shared house than halls! My uni halls (from 2005-2008) were about £60 a week. My rent in shared house in a town was between £200 and £250 (I lived in 2 houses) a month. Ok so housing has gone up, but for the universities to be charging an amount only the rich can afford is just another way of saying they don't want poor people!!

    If you were living in London in a shared house you could pay around £500 a month (for a small room, or in a not so nice area), which is £6000 per year - still cheaper than some halls of residence.
  • lolita2013
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:18 PM
    More money for students.
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:18 PM
    My daughter is a First Year Student studying in Wales. Once her Accomadation has been paid for ( £108 per week) she is left with £14.00 a week to live on. That is adding the Student Loan and Grant together. We are not well off but we are helping as much as we can so that she has enough money to buy food etc . Yes she did have a summer job which helped to pay for the things she needed to start her first Term and is currently looking for a few hours work where she is studying.
    • devildog
    • By devildog 30th Sep 13, 12:26 PM
    • 1,203 Posts
    • 1,225 Thanks
    devildog
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:26 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:26 PM
    I agree that something needs to be done, most students do not have much left over (if anything) after paying for accommodation and I do think it is because they are a somewhat captive market.
    However, I think the MSE news article is also somewhat misleading-the price quoted for Charles Morris Hall, Leeds is for an en-suite room and is classed as catered (12 meals a week) which isn't made clear and obviously although students do need to eat they do not need an en-suite room (unless for medical reasons)
  • lolita2013
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:27 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 13, 12:27 PM
    Just to add to my Post my Daughter was not given any choice of where she would be living as all the Students studying the same Subject as herself were housed on four floors of the same block. I know of some of her friends living in England that pay around the same amount each week (£100 +). All things considered it seems to be a fair price to pay but there is not much over each week for them to live on.
  • GeneHunt
    If parents really are poor there is plenty of money out there for students in the form of maintenance grants, bursaries etc on top of the maximum student loans.

    For the rest - well surely we can expect parents to put their hand in their pockets - why does the tax payer have to pay for everything FFS?
    Last edited by GeneHunt; 30-09-2013 at 12:36 PM.
    • miller
    • By miller 30th Sep 13, 12:42 PM
    • 1,309 Posts
    • 483 Thanks
    miller
    There needs to be more accountability/justification for the massive salaries awarded to vice-chancellors. Soaking students for up to £9k pa, whilst a lot of them are on £300k is wrong IMO.
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 30th Sep 13, 12:44 PM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    Middlesex University last year was full of Ukrainians, Polish and even Africans on UK student loans. I am extremely interested in knowing how the loan repayment can be enforced. It's hard enough to get money out of UK students who emigrate after graduation, but Ukrainian? Will the Ukrainian government even answer the phone if we leave the EU? Threaten to send bailiffs to Kiev?

    Stop giving money to foreigners.

    I think we are going to have to impose some kind of travel restrictions when people scarper from their debts. We CANCEL your British passport. you can still go on long holidays, but if you are found to be moonlighting and don't pay your student loan back, bye bye to your UK citizenship.

    We can only cancel UK passports, so no lending to foreigners.
    • Sharon87
    • By Sharon87 30th Sep 13, 1:09 PM
    • 3,652 Posts
    • 3,106 Thanks
    Sharon87
    Middlesex University last year was full of Ukrainians, Polish and even Africans on UK student loans. I am extremely interested in knowing how the loan repayment can be enforced. It's hard enough to get money out of UK students who emigrate after graduation, but Ukrainian? Will the Ukrainian government even answer the phone if we leave the EU? Threaten to send bailiffs to Kiev?

    Stop giving money to foreigners.

    I think we are going to have to impose some kind of travel restrictions when people scarper from their debts. We CANCEL your British passport. you can still go on long holidays, but if you are found to be moonlighting and don't pay your student loan back, bye bye to your UK citizenship.

    We can only cancel UK passports, so no lending to foreigners.
    Originally posted by Pincher
    The only foreign students I've known had to pay all their fees up front and live off their own money...
  • TurnUpForTheBooks
    Amazing Martin. Never has never never been stretched so far by so few for the benefit of so many

    I'm all for taking the strain off students who really do need routine income and expenditure discipline and definitely do not not need surprise hikes, surprise shortfalls or constantly worries about wolves at the door. But isn't the suggestion of increasing their government guaranteed loans just kicking the can down the road right into the jaws of privateers? Is your suggestion based on some hope that eventually it (the discredited loan scheme) will eventually disappear into long grass or down some drain and get forgotten?

    Surely such a supposition would be dangerous for any student to rely upon, especially when the bigger the loan book at RPI + 3% the higher the likelihood it'll be an attraction to uglier and bolder private lenders ?

    No debt collectors ? Ever ? How can you be so sure ?
    From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 30th Sep 13, 1:40 PM
    • 11,483 Posts
    • 61,386 Thanks
    edinburgher
    The only foreign students I've known had to pay all their fees up front and live off their own money...
    Originally posted by Sharon87
    Agreed.

    Also, according to the SLC website (one reliable source), 'foreign' students only get finance if they've lived in the UK for 3 years, or have been granted 'settled' status.

    If either of these is the case, chances are they (and their families) have been living in and contributing to the UK economy for at least these 3 years.

    Granted, not as long as someone who's family have been paying taxes for generations, but it's not as if they just waltz across the border for some free money
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 30th Sep 13, 1:57 PM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    I was vetting tenants, so of course I quizzed them about how they are financing the course. 90% of them I interviewed were overseas and getting a UK student loan. Half of them didn't even have cash to put a deposit down with, because they have to wait for the student loan to come through after enrolment.

    As far as I'm concerned, student loans are money down the drain, and half of it will never be paid back. If UK students don't pay it back, at least we have simply restored the old system of free tuition with grants. Give it to overseas student, then they just scarper after three years.
    • dimbo61
    • By dimbo61 30th Sep 13, 2:02 PM
    • 10,252 Posts
    • 5,561 Thanks
    dimbo61
    The universities are now spending millions on new labs, lecture halls, faculties and schools
    They are also building new en-suite bedrooms in huge tower block all over the country in many city centres.
    Costs are often £125-175 a week on 50 week contracts but you get your own bathroom, A view of the city skyline, single bed and constant party noise 24/7 with staff on hand to look after the new students.
    Many councils are using Article 4 to stop private landlords from converting old large houses into cheaper student housing by blocking all applications for change of use!
    80,000 students now in Manchester so what do the 3 universities do with £720 million pounds each year? 80,000X £9000= £720,000,000
    • mr_jrt
    • By mr_jrt 30th Sep 13, 2:15 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    mr_jrt
    I will never forgive my ruddy uni & LEA not informing me I could have claimed all sorts of grants until halfway through my 3rd year instead of all the information I'd ever been given being all there was aside from the hardship loan was the standard loan. I was the first person in my famiy to ever go to uni and I should have started in 2000, had I not taken a year out beforehand to earn the money needed so I didn't have the distraction of employment whilst at uni.

    Due to circumstances, I had my tuition fees paid for me (long-divorced parents), but as I say, I had to both take a year out before uni to work and save up as well as take the maximum means-tested living-costs loan of 4k x 3 years. I'm just about down from the ~£12k I borrowed to 4 digits.

    The pathetic amount of information given out is staggering. I agree with the article - the terms now are much more generous than my own, though the numbers are in theory bigger, (I just hope the Lib Dems manage to convey this across before the election or they will be annihilated!)
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 30th Sep 13, 2:46 PM
    • 20,102 Posts
    • 15,243 Thanks
    Lokolo
    I was vetting tenants, so of course I quizzed them about how they are financing the course. 90% of them I interviewed were overseas and getting a UK student loan. Half of them didn't even have cash to put a deposit down with, because they have to wait for the student loan to come through after enrolment.
    Originally posted by Pincher
    Then they were likely to be lying to you.
    • emmilou
    • By emmilou 30th Sep 13, 7:37 PM
    • 314 Posts
    • 596 Thanks
    emmilou
    The cost of accommodation does need to be looked at - my daughter gets the minimum amount of maintenance loan (£3.5k p.a) as me and OH both work full time, her accommodation is £99 a week (just over £4k a year) and so we have a £500 shortfall a year.
    Therefore we have to make up that difference and give her money for food, she has a weekend job which will cover her other purchases e.g clothes, toiletries, alcohol etc..

    It seems at 18 you are considered an independent adult and yet still penalised by having married parents who work, IMO maintenance loans shouldn't really be means tested
    Make 2019 in 2019 #73 £221.35
    Mortgage - monthly op £750
    Jan 2018 - 116,457.88
    Jan 2019 - 96,479.06
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