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    • d123
    • By d123 1st Aug 13, 5:53 PM
    • 8,017 Posts
    • 5,232 Thanks
    d123
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 13, 5:53 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 13, 5:53 PM
    How is that news?

    O2 won 800 MHz spectrum in the OFCOM auction, the iPhone 5 does not support the 800 MHz band and suddenly people are surprised by the fact?

    This has been public knowledge since February, the iPhone 5 was always a bridging device as far as LTE is concerned.

    The iPhone 5s or 6 (whatever Apple call it) will be out shortly and will support the proper 4G bands.
    ====
    • mikegahan
    • By mikegahan 1st Aug 13, 5:53 PM
    • 275 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    mikegahan
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 13, 5:53 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 13, 5:53 PM
    A little ambitious perhaps, their 3g network leaves a lot to be desired, even in a big urban centre like London, suppose they see 4g as a big money spinner, perhaps they should have spent that money on iprovin their 3g coverage
    • d123
    • By d123 1st Aug 13, 5:55 PM
    • 8,017 Posts
    • 5,232 Thanks
    d123
    • #4
    • 1st Aug 13, 5:55 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Aug 13, 5:55 PM
    A little ambitious perhaps, their 3g network leaves a lot to be desired, even in a big urban centre like London, suppose they see 4g as a big money spinner, perhaps they should have spent that money on iprovin their 3g coverage
    Originally posted by mikegahan
    Fortunately there is a coverage obligation built into the 4G allocation that O2 won in the auction. They will be penalised if they don't hit coverage targets so the likelihood is we will see quite rapid expansion.


    Ofcom has attached a coverage obligation to one of the 800 MHz lots of spectrum. The winner of this lot is Telef!nica UK Ltd. This operator is obliged to provide a mobile broadband service for indoor reception to at least 98% of the UK population (expected to cover at least 99% when outdoors) and at least 95% of the population of each of the UK nations – England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales – by the end of 2017 at the latest.

    ====
    • ZhugeEX
    • By ZhugeEX 1st Aug 13, 6:15 PM
    • 1,154 Posts
    • 461 Thanks
    ZhugeEX
    • #5
    • 1st Aug 13, 6:15 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Aug 13, 6:15 PM
    How is that news?

    O2 won 800 MHz spectrum in the OFCOM auction, the iPhone 5 does not support the 800 MHz band and suddenly people are surprised by the fact?

    This has been public knowledge since February, the iPhone 5 was always a bridging device as far as LTE is concerned.

    The iPhone 5s or 6 (whatever Apple call it) will be out shortly and will support the proper 4G bands.
    Originally posted by d123
    Mr average joe won't have known.

    And they are the people complaining right now. But you and i both know they have no real right to complain.

    4G roll out seems to be blanket coverage of cities (hence the focus on just 3 cities first then the others) before moving out into other areas.
  • Brianrh
    • #6
    • 1st Aug 13, 7:08 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Aug 13, 7:08 PM
    I live 200 yards from an O2 mast and I still can't get 3G at or around my home area. Currently with Giffgaff but seriously considering Orange/T-Mobile. As for 4G, I wouldn't mind a little 3G to start with.
    • d123
    • By d123 1st Aug 13, 8:14 PM
    • 8,017 Posts
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    d123
    • #7
    • 1st Aug 13, 8:14 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Aug 13, 8:14 PM
    Mr average joe won't have known.

    And they are the people complaining right now. But you and i both know they have no real right to complain.

    4G roll out seems to be blanket coverage of cities (hence the focus on just 3 cities first then the others) before moving out into other areas.
    Originally posted by ZhugeEX
    Agreed, but you would expect MSE to do a little research before publishing a "news" story and not act like Average Joe .
    ====
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 1st Aug 13, 8:24 PM
    • 4,812 Posts
    • 1,575 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    • #8
    • 1st Aug 13, 8:24 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Aug 13, 8:24 PM
    Their 4G network might be a bit better as they are rolling it out in conjunction with Vodafone.

    O2s 3G coverage is very poor
    • ZhugeEX
    • By ZhugeEX 1st Aug 13, 8:27 PM
    • 1,154 Posts
    • 461 Thanks
    ZhugeEX
    • #9
    • 1st Aug 13, 8:27 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Aug 13, 8:27 PM
    Agreed, but you would expect MSE to do a little research before publishing a "news" story and not act like Average Joe .
    Originally posted by d123
    Ah, it's not MSE though. It's everyone. Even EE's twitter were poking fun based on the iPhone issue.

    • d123
    • By d123 1st Aug 13, 9:58 PM
    • 8,017 Posts
    • 5,232 Thanks
    d123
    Ah, it's not MSE though. It's everyone. Even EE's twitter were poking fun based on the iPhone issue.

    Originally posted by ZhugeEX
    Again, not the same thing, I would expect EE to make a big issue about it, it's in their business interest.

    I don't see why someone who styles themself as "MSE's tech writer" couldn't be bothered to research the matter properly.
    ====
    • ZhugeEX
    • By ZhugeEX 1st Aug 13, 10:07 PM
    • 1,154 Posts
    • 461 Thanks
    ZhugeEX
    You missed my point.

    EVERY news outlet from BBC and Sky to the telegraph and daily mail have noted the fact that the iPhone 5 won't work on O2.

    In fact the O2 CEO was attacked in an interview on Sky news for that very reason.

    So yes, journalists/average joe don't really know what they're talking about and are complaining for nothing. But it's not just MSE, it's everyone.
    Last edited by ZhugeEX; 01-08-2013 at 10:09 PM.
    • redux
    • By redux 2nd Aug 13, 2:09 AM
    • 19,666 Posts
    • 27,269 Thanks
    redux
    They should be attacking Apple, not O2.

    The reduction of the TV bands to make way for 4g has been known about for years, and allowing EE to get in early on a different band was a later decision.

    So Apple have had plenty of time. The UK situation is a bit different from other countries where Apple was taken to task for advertising 4g when their phone could not be used on 4g.

    And despite some comments above, O2 has built a lot of 3g coverage in the last couple of years, but much of the increase, especially in more rural areas, has been at 900 MHz. I noticed recently that French networks have done the same, so one of my phones had 3g coverage but when the same SIM was in the dongle I'd taken it had 2g only. Different dongle next visit.
    Last edited by redux; 02-08-2013 at 2:20 AM.
    • NFH
    • By NFH 2nd Aug 13, 8:01 AM
    • 4,329 Posts
    • 1,415 Thanks
    NFH
    When I bought my iPhone 5 SIM-free from Apple on its launch date of 21st September 2012, Apple stated on the ordering screen (of which I have kept a screenshot) "An unlocked iPhone 5 may not support LTE networks in all other countries; contact service providers for details". Although Apple mentions other countries (i.e. other than the UK), it does not mention the variation in support within the UK. At the time, no UK network was offering 4G but it turns out that Vodafone and O2 already knew that they would not support any of the 4G frequencies of the iPhone 5, and Apple would have known this as well.

    Given Apple's lack of disclaimer regarding UK networks (only regarding non-UK networks), I believe I have strong grounds to return my iPhone 5 for a refund, probably best timed when Vodafone and O2 launch their 4G services and the next iPhone is launched. Sections 14(2B)(a) and 14(2D) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 are particularly relevant.
    • d123
    • By d123 2nd Aug 13, 9:20 AM
    • 8,017 Posts
    • 5,232 Thanks
    d123
    .

    And despite some comments above, O2 has built a lot of 3g coverage in the last couple of years, but much of the increase, especially in more rural areas, has been at 900 MHz. I noticed recently that French networks have done the same, so one of my phones had 3g coverage but when the same SIM was in the dongle I'd taken it had 2g only. Different dongle next visit.
    Originally posted by redux
    You have a very good point there. After winning early termination from T-Mobile I ported my number over to giffgaff to "park" it until deciding what to do.

    I have been pleasantly surprised by the improved 3G coverage I'm seeing, I have yet to find an area in the North East without 3G, and even indoor coverage is very good, indoor is definitely better than EE was. I've just realised that last time I was on O2 I was on an Android phone without 3G900, this time I'm using a iPhone 4S, which is 3G900 compatible.
    ====
    • SoWhatIsNext
    • By SoWhatIsNext 2nd Aug 13, 11:21 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    SoWhatIsNext
    When I bought my iPhone 5 SIM-free from Apple on its launch date of 21st September 2012, Apple stated on the ordering screen (of which I have kept a screenshot) "An unlocked iPhone 5 may not support LTE networks in all other countries; contact service providers for details". Although Apple mentions other countries (i.e. other than the UK), it does not mention the variation in support within the UK. At the time, no UK network was offering 4G but it turns out that Vodafone and O2 already knew that they would not support any of the 4G frequencies of the iPhone 5, and Apple would have known this as well.

    Given Apple's lack of disclaimer regarding UK networks (only regarding non-UK networks), I believe I have strong grounds to return my iPhone 5 for a refund, probably best timed when Vodafone and O2 launch their 4G services and the next iPhone is launched. Sections 14(2B)(a) and 14(2D) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 are particularly relevant.
    Originally posted by NFH
    It was obvious that it wouldn't be compatible, if you paid attention to the news. The only reason EE could do it was because they persuaded OFCOM to use existing spectrum. The other networks took them to court to try to block it, but failed.

    The new spectrum that was due to be auctioned was never going to be compatible with the iPhone 5 due to the new frequencies. Therefore, if you bought the iPhone 5 for 4G, you could only have bought it with the intention of using it on EE.
    Last edited by SoWhatIsNext; 02-08-2013 at 12:41 PM.
    • NFH
    • By NFH 2nd Aug 13, 12:03 PM
    • 4,329 Posts
    • 1,415 Thanks
    NFH
    It was obvious that it wouldn't be compatible, if you paid attention to the news.
    Originally posted by SoWhatIsNext
    The Sale of Goods Act doesn't expect consumers to follow the news, except perhaps for something that is so well known that it is the first news headlines in mainstream media. The only relevant published information is the material mentioned in Section 14(2D).
    • SoWhatIsNext
    • By SoWhatIsNext 2nd Aug 13, 12:53 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    SoWhatIsNext
    The Sale of Goods Act doesn't expect consumers to follow the news, except perhaps for something that is so well known that it is the first news headlines in mainstream media. The only relevant published information is the material mentioned in Section 14(2D).
    Originally posted by NFH
    You are right.

    It was in the news, and I would have thought it was widely known that it wouldn't be compatible.

    Apple probably took the view that the information was correct as the only existing 4G network at the time was EE, which it was compatible on.

    However, they shouldn't have assumed it was known and made it absolutely clear that it was not going to work on the other networks who would deploy 4G later (due to the different frequencies).
    Last edited by SoWhatIsNext; 04-08-2013 at 8:11 AM.
    • d123
    • By d123 2nd Aug 13, 4:32 PM
    • 8,017 Posts
    • 5,232 Thanks
    d123
    With regard to LTE, this page was up on the Apple site from before the iPhone 5 release (there are some network additions for other countries). The entry for the UK hasn't changed.

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

    Note the small print as well.

    Data roaming depends on supported bands and carrier policies. LTE roaming may not be available. Contact your carrier for more details.

    To identify your iPhone 5 model number, see http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3939. Unlocked iPhone 5 models may support LTE networks outside the country of purchase when using a valid SIM from a supported carrier. Contact your carrier for more details.

    LTE band support is based on the iPhone 5 model number and configuration for either CDMA or GSM networks. Band support does not guarantee support on all LTE networks running on the same bands.

    Some features may not be available for all countries or all areas. Click here to see complete list.
    ====
    • redux
    • By redux 2nd Aug 13, 5:28 PM
    • 19,666 Posts
    • 27,269 Thanks
    redux
    You are right.

    It was in the news, and I would have thought it was widely known that it wouldn't be compatible.

    Apple probably took the view that the information was correct as the only existing 4G network at the time was EE, which it was compatible on.
    Originally posted by SoWhatIsNext
    Maybe by then Apple had already been rapped on advertising standards grounds in other countries, so it was worth taking a view about getting such things more accurate
    Last edited by redux; 02-08-2013 at 5:40 PM.
    • corbyboy
    • By corbyboy 2nd Aug 13, 5:48 PM
    • 1,137 Posts
    • 1,378 Thanks
    corbyboy
    I am outraged. I have just heard that O2's 4G doesn't work on my Nokia 3310.
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